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From: hall@vice.ico.tek.com (Hal Lillywhite)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian
Subject: Re: Strangers in a Strange World
Message-ID: <Dec.21.02.38.36.1989.21849@athos.rutgers.edu>
Date: 21 Dec 89 07:38:38 GMT
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In article <Dec.17.02.19.40.1989.15453@athos.rutgers.edu> procsy@cbnewsd.att.com (Jeff Sargent) writes:

[comments deleted about sex being considered intrinsically bad in church
history]

<
The moderator comments:

[The idea that sex is evil was certainly present in some Gnostic
<groups.  However as applied to mainstream Christianity it seems to be
<primarily an accusation that various groups make about others.  That
<is, it's common to accuse people of believing it, but I don't know of
<any group within mainstream Christianity that actually did.  

Does anybody know if there is a connection between the idea of sex
being bad and puritanism?  One of my friends defines a puritan as a
person who is just sure that somewhere someone is having a good time
and he can't stand the thought.  I know that there have been (and
maybe still are) groups who seem to think that man is not deserving
of anything enjoyable and therefore should not have any fun or
enjoyment.  Some of them seem to think that the only way to reach
heaven is to avoid all pleasure and happiness on earth.  It seems to
me that this attitude could easily lead to the idea that sex is bad
since it's enjoyable.  However the people I've known who thought sex
was bad were not puritans in other areas, in fact they were
Peruvians who really knew how to party.

Anybody know more about this?

[I think this definition of Puritan is like the original claim about
sex being evil: it's an accusation often made against groups, but few
if any actually fit it.  I don't know of any groups that were opposed
to joy as they saw it.  Properly speaking, the term Puritan refers to
a broad movement in the English Church during the 16th and 17th Cent.
They wanted to purify the church of non-Scriptural elements.  How far
they wanted to go varied, as did whether they felt constrained to work
within the Church or ended up separating from it.  Many of them wanted
to turn England into a Godly commonwealth organized on Biblical
principles.  People varied from responsible to extremist.  The more
responsible ones specifically disavowed positions that people tend to
use the term "puritanical" for.  E.g.  they stood for responsible use
of alcohol, considering total abstinence to be a cop-out.  On the
other hand, they certainly objected to many activities that were
popular at the time, including as I recall all or some kinds of
dancing and theater.  The objection was not that people had fun, but
that at least as practiced at the time, the activities encouraged
lustful and other non-Christian attitudes.  However they certainly
engaged in plenty of activities that supplied innocent pleasure.
Anyone who attempts to make decisions like this is bound to make
decisions that somebody else finds silly.  Some people find that all
rock music is harmful, etc.  Others think this is silly.
Unsympathetic people characterize them as objecting to anything that
is fun.  I know of no reason to think that Puritans got less enjoyment
out of life than others.  I've always liked the first question of the
Westminster Shorter Catechism (one product of this group): "Q 1.  What
is the chief end of man? A.  Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to
enjoy him forever." --clh]