Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!clyde.concordia.ca!uunet!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!att!cbnewsl!arny
From: arny@cbnewsl.ATT.COM (arny.b.engelson)
Newsgroups: comp.edu
Subject: Re: Education
Message-ID: <3438@cbnewsl.ATT.COM>
Date: 29 Dec 89 20:19:39 GMT
References: <7531@hubcap.clemson.edu>
Reply-To: arny@cbnewsl.ATT.COM (arny.b.engelson,wh,)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 86

In article <7531@hubcap.clemson.edu> billwolf%hazel.cs.clemson.edu@hubcap.clemson.edu writes:
>From bralick@cs.psu.edu (Will Bralick):
>> IMHO it should be the _last_ priority of the secondary school to 
>> train a student for a trade.  The first priority should be to 
>> teach the basic skills (reading, writing, mathematics, computer 
>> skills, library skills, thinking skills, a foreign language, etc.) 
>> necessary for the student to pursue a lifetime of learning 
>> (i.e. the pursuit of their own interests), the second should 
>> be to produce a literate, informed electorate, and once those 
>> two missions are accomplished, the student can then be trained 
>> in life skills (how to balance a check book, why one shouldn't 
>> borrow for consumption, how to prepare meals, change diapers, etc.), 
>> and then finally one (or several) trades.
>
>   Well, clearly we have markedly different priorities.  Life skills
>   are top priority, followed by making money.  The rest is optional,
>   at the student's discretion.  If the student chooses not to vote
>   (a popular option), fine; if a decision is made not to learn any
>   foreign languages, no problem -- many Americans will never have
>   any practical opportunity to make use of foreign languages anyway.
>   
>   Bill Wolfe, wtwolfe@hubcap.clemson.edu

  First of all, Bill, your posting clearly indicates that you forgot that
this newsgroup (and your article) have a worldwide distribution, including
many countries where English is not the primary language.  If everyone
held your dim view of learning foreign languages, they wouldn't be able
to read this.  Many Americans like to travel, even to countries where
English isn't the primary language.  Knowing a foreign language increases
the ability to communicate with others on these trips, and makes the trip
more enjoyable.  On a recent trip to Europe, my wife and I used (to various
degrees) 5 different languages.
  US companies that do business overseas (more and more each day) must
have people who speak the language.  This trend is increasing, creating
a demand for technical people with foreign language ability to work with
overseas business partners.  George Bush's ability to speak fluent Spanish
certainly didn't hurt when he addressed members of the large hispanic
community in the US.  And I doubt he learned Spanish AFTER deciding to go
into politics.  Learning a foreign language, and learning the basics in
different areas of science and humanities, makes you better able to succeed
in the world.  The world doesn't stop at the US border, you know.
  I agree with Will that trade skills is a low priority for schools.
Teaching someone a trade will not help them succeed in life; teaching them
to think, will.  If they can think, and know how to make use of the
resources around them, they can make an informed decision and learn any
number of skills.  Most people want to learn a little about different
areas before deciding what to do with their life.  You have to TAKE a
class to really know if you like that subject, and may want to spend your
life pursuing it.  Many times, it helps to know a little about everything.
  Some examples: a little chemistry for dealing with drugs and a variety
of household cleaners; a little carpentry for fixing things around the
house; a little accounting for filling out your taxes; a little business
knowledge for investing your money; a little psychology for raising your
children and generally dealing with others; a little math for just about
everything; some literary skills for writing (even if its only technical
writing); history to learn from other's mistakes (and successes); etc.
There are many whiz bang techies whose careers are limited because they
write terribly, have no business sense, and can't hold a conversation on
any topic outside of computers.  The idea is to give people the best
opportunity possible, not just to see that they can get some kind of job.
  Being an expert in one area doesn't guarantee you success.  The field
may become obsolete, and you with it.  Remember to Engineers after the
Apollo program ended?  (You probably covered it in one of those useless
classes called History).  Or how about the steel workers?  I'm sure there
are other examples.
  I won't even address the not voting statement, except to say that this
is one of the great problems facing our nation.  General apathy and lack
of knowledge about what's going on around the country and the world is
causing this country terrible harm.  You have to care what goes on outside
of your little world, or else it will someday come crashing in around you.

Being a specialist for your profession does not mean you should be a
specialist in your entire life.  With your plan Bill, how many Shakespeares,
Beethovens, and Michelangelo's will we lose because they never thought
to take an art, music or literature class, and instead spend all their
time learning plumbing in high school so they can make a living.  (Note:
nothing against plumbing here, its just that people should learn about many
things so they can decide what it is they want to do.)  Just like the
child who decides s/he hates a vegetable without ever having tried it,
and then once being forced to eat it, decides it's not so bad.  Granted,
if s/he still hates it, then one taste is enough, as is one class in a
particular subject.

Sorry this turned out so long.

  -- Arny Engelson   att!wayback!arny