Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!iuvax!cica!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!SUN.COM!wmb
From: wmb@SUN.COM
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: Re: Forth Popularity
Message-ID: <8912282253.AA10230@jade.berkeley.edu>
Date: 28 Dec 89 20:31:00 GMT
Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: Forth Interest Group International List <FIGI-L%SCFVM.bitnet@jade.berkeley.edu>
Organization: The Internet
Lines: 45

> Forth could easily be the language of the people because it is easy for
> non-techs to learn

My observations of people have led me to believe that many (most?)
people simply do not want to learn, regardless of whether or not it's easy.

Hackers (who love to learn) are a special breed.

> As I've said
> before, a properly marketed, inexpensive and easy-to-understand, personal
> computer running Forth will make a lot of money and will make Forth the
> language for everybody.
> ...
> A cheap Forth computer can do an end run around this attitude and I
> think the world will better for it.

Several points:

Remember that the vast majority of computer buyers are not programmers,
so they do not want to learn any computer language at all.  This is one
of the reasons the Macintosh has been successful; the visual user interface
is not percieved as a "computer language" (even though it is a language,
in some sense), whereas the DOS command interpreter is a computer language.

Several attempts have been made to build the "computer running Forth"
that you describe:  The Jupiter Ace, the Epson Valdocs system, and the
Canon Cat.  All failed for one reason or another.  Of course, you might
counter that they were not "properly marketed", but I believe that
"properly marketed" is rather a circular concept.  If a system is successful,
then it must have been properly marketed, and vice versa.

Who can say for sure why some systems catch on and others don't?  In my
mind, market success involves a whole lot of simultaneous factors, and
one of the biggest factors is just blink luck.  Limited success can be
predictably achieved just by doing a good job and covering all the bases,
but "big time" success involves the luck factor.  In order to influence a
LOT of people (as the phrase "make Forth the language for everybody" seems
to imply), you need to achieve the "big time" success.

By and large, people don't want a better computer language; instead,
they want to collect their paycheck then go home and drink beer.  Only
a few of us chronically dissatisfied individuals keep thinking "there has
to be a better way".

Mitch