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From: koopman@a.gp.cs.cmu.edu (Philip Koopman)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth
Subject: embedded systems & Forth
Message-ID: <7436@pt.cs.cmu.edu>
Date: 1 Jan 90 12:34:46 GMT
Organization: Carnegie-Mellon University, CS/RI
Lines: 52


 
Recently I have discerned a dichotomy in various discussions
about Forth and Forth-based environment.  On the one hand,
it appears that the only place where Forth is (or may be,
depending on who you ask) widely used is in embedded control
systems.  This is not to say that it is not used elsewhere, merely
that it is not widely used in the context of all programmers
working on a class of applications.  This is really no surprise,
because classical Forth is at its strongest in a constrained
system with tough specifications to meet.
 
On the other hand, much of the discussions and proposals
on how to change, improve, and modify Forth is based
around large system considerations.
 
Where will this lead?  I could see that it might lead to a
situation where embedded control applications diverge from
the "mainstream" of the Forth community in order to keep
their systems lean, while the others go on to evolve
fat systems for Unix use.  And, don't be so fast to give
the argument about being able to simply subset the Unix
Forth for use in embedded systems.  The assumptions and
structure of a fat Forth system, unless special care is taken,
run a little bit too deep in the implementation to be able
to just strip out major features without a lot of work as well
as a qualitative shift to the way the language looks and
feels.  Of course, one is then left to ask whether the real
mainstream would then be the embedded systems folks or
the Unix system folks.
 
Forth has many things to offer in tightly constrained embedded
systems that no other language can.  And, "cheap" memory
not withstanding, there will *always* be tightly constrained
environments where resources, especially memory, are in
very short supply.  Forth may not have much to offer the 
average programmer (i.e. the non-elitist non-creative 9-5'er
referred to in earlier posts) in a Unix environment.
Perhaps, if we want to see Forth get acceptance with
the rest of the world, we should make a concerted effort
to make it very usable for embedded control applications.
Right now, only folks who are desperate in embedded control
applications will turn to Forth to get a job done (as opposed
to learning it for aesthetics or fun).  If we can make it the
*language of choice* in some application area, then we will 
have gained a foothold in the rest of the world.
 
  Phil Koopman                koopman@greyhound.ece.cmu.edu   Arpanet
  2525A Wexford Run Rd.
  Wexford, PA  15090
Senior Scientist at Harris Semiconductor.
I don't speak for them, and they don't speak for me.