Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!sl
From: sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne)
Newsgroups: comp.protocols.tcp-ip
Subject: Re: Networks considered harmful
Message-ID: <117@van-bc.UUCP>
Date: 23 Dec 89 22:23:05 GMT
References: <8912210003.AA02652@bel.isi.edu>
Reply-To: sl@van-bc.UUCP (Stuart Lynne)
Organization: Wimsey Associates
Lines: 84

In article <8912210003.AA02652@bel.isi.edu> postel@VENERA.ISI.EDU writes:
>
>Hmm.
>
>Can someone explain how we could have this discussion of FAX vs E-Mail via
>FAX?  What is the scenario for my having recieved all the contributions to
>date and sent this message to you all?
>

Are you trying to point out that the News system (as sort of an extension of
the mail system) is doing something that would be more difficult by FAX?

I would tend to agree with you on that point. 

However to possibly clarify some of my suggestions. What I would like to see
is extensions to the FAX standards that would allow FTP between two systems
that have FAX modems. (I.e. V.29/V.27 technology, suitable for sending a fax
from your system to a Real(tm) Fax Machine. )

Once you have FTP you could see articles arriving at your machine that have
Path lines like:


	Path:  yoursite!somesite!backbone!van-bc!1-604-555-1212!slpc
	From:  stuart@1-604-555-1212

In other words the computer called slpc run's a news system. A user on that
system posted an article. It was sent via an FTP process to van-bc by
dialing up van-bc's fax line. During the call setup phase van-bc and slpc
agreed to allow slpc to transfer a file from slpc to van-bc, and have it run
as input to rnews. Specifically we have replaced uucp's uux command with
something like (assuming 555-2222 is van-bc's fax number):

	faxexecute 555-2222!rnews newsarticle

The "advantage" being that the fax subsystem doesn't require a Systems file
containing a chat script to get into the remote system. Just a phone number.
The two systems will decide what modulation schemes, baud rates, protocols,
encodings, work to do, etc; after they connect using the T.30 specifications
(extended to allow things like FTP).

You should also be able to send mail back to the orignator by sending mail
to:

	mail stuart@1-604-555-1212 mailmessage

Now if your system has aforementioned fax modem, your system just dials the
number and it and slpc decide whether or not it will allow your system to
deliver email to it (using the fax FTP protocol again).

Of course if you don't have that type of technology you can send it to a
gateway machine (for example van-bc):

	mail van-bc!1-604-555-1212!stuart mailmessage

Presumably sendmail/smail3 etc can be setup to do this for you. 

The important thing about *all* of the above is that at *no* time are we
using the fax standards in their current form. I.e. rendering the message to a
bitmap and transferring that. Just the modem technology, and the call setup
technology. 

Also note that with appropriate software a mail message like the above
*could* get delivered as a rendered bitmap if the sending machine discovered
during call setup that the destination *was* a Real(tm) Fax Machine. But
that the faxexecute request would fail (Error: fax machine can't unbatch news).

The hoped for end result is simpler point to point email using the PSTN. I
can send email to you without prior arrangement if you have either a fax
machine or a computer system equipped with fax modem (and appropriate
software). And that I think was the original idea behind the JMC article in
CACM. We must remove the requirement email has for going through special
networks or it will be supplanted by fax. 

NB I'm suggesting RFC-822 type messages for this type of use. Others might
prefer Fido type messages. Or even worse X.400. I suppose as part of the call
setup two systems can start by asking for X.400, and then falling back to
RFC-822 or Fido, and then down to a rendered bitmap.

-- 
Stuart.Lynne@wimsey.bc.ca ubc-cs!van-bc!sl 604-937-7532(voice) 604-939-4768(fax)

-- 
Stuart.Lynne@wimsey.bc.ca ubc-cs!van-bc!sl 604-937-7532(voice) 604-939-4768(fax)