Xref: utzoo alt.religion.computers:1237 gnu.misc.discuss:662 Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!jb3o+ From: jb3o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon Allen Boone) Newsgroups: alt.religion.computers,gnu.misc.discuss Subject: Re: The meaning of life, as it relates to hacking. Message-ID: Date: 24 Dec 89 18:51:30 GMT References: <4639@sugar.hackercorp.com> <4ZW1ijS00WBKE1qh5C@andrew.cmu.edu> , <4823@sugar.hackercorp.com> Organization: Class of '92, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 130 In-Reply-To: <4823@sugar.hackercorp.com> peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes: > So am I. But not the way you mean. Hold on. I'm not quite sure if you explained what you meant. I will reread the article, but could you please explain it again (privately, so as not to waste bandwidth). > Not necessarily. Most people are quite capable of looking at something that's > complex and valuable to them and realising that it wouldn't exist if the > author wasn't compensated. The reaction I get from most people when I tell > them that the Soviet Union considers Asimov a national hero but refuses to > pay him royalties on sales bears that out. That's what quite a few people i know say as well. Gee...our mileage is varying less and less as days go by..... > > - thus, if they could be shown how to make the same gains > > and do without intellectual property rights, then i have utter > > confindence that they would. > > You're missing a stage here. The hidden assumption that such is possible. I'm not missing a stage. Read it again - *if* they could be shown how to make the same gains *and* do without intellectual property rights - i'm not saying this is or is not possible. I'm just saying *if* it is possible.... > I presume you're talking about the war on drugs. That is the most prominent example today... > Anyone who understands the market system, too... Well, while it doesn't take an academician to understand the market system, it *does* take *some* amount of intelligence and awareness to understand the market system.... > > nope. i'd be just peachy keen if they sold the software for $50 or > > $5... i don't *want* the source to . > > OK, you're a new variety. You defend the FSF without believing in the same > things they do. RMS is more interested in making the source available than > how much you charge for the binaries. Under the GPL you can sell a binary > for anything you can get for it so long as you give the source away. well, i respect rms for what he thinks...however, his opinions and mine vary on some subjects. i think that having the source available keeps people from charging outrageous prices, something i'd like to see become the norm. i think that rms' opinion is that it doesn't matter how much you charge for the binaries, because anyone who wants to will be able to get the source for *free*. of course, as both you and i have pointed out, people *do* feel that creators should be compensated - so, why don't they do it? i think that they don't because they only support creatorship rewards due to the fact that they consider themselves creators and think that they should be compensated. thus, they *don't* reward people who create things unless they are legal bound to do so. that's why we have the number of pirates that we have. that is also why some people don't want to give away their source. maybe we should have a double standard - compensation for programmers in their choice - money or source - and just charge the *#$#%%#$#* out of the individuals who would simply take and give nothing (either money or source) in compensation..... i think that it would be real cool if people gave away their source - and in return, i am willing to give away my source that includes theirs, after all, if i don't, who will? (of course, *some* people will - but why should they give it to me?) making the source available is simple (in my mind) an alternative form of the compensation that we all seem to feel programmers should recieve. You scratch my back and i'll scratch yours - and while we're at it, how about we make a bigger, better, faster wheel? To every thing ... turn, turn, turn........ > If someone gets $1000000 of value out of you spending a year in college, why > not? Nobody *has* to buy Lotus 1-2-3 for $500. They can always buy Vip > Professional for on the order of $100, or SC for the cost of a floppy. True. However, as if often the case, people are not always getting the values that they think they are getting. Some people would think that getting Lotus Quality (tm) software for $100 would be a REAL GOOD deal, ie. really a $100 value. It is concievable that i could fool someone into thinking they are getting a value that they really aren't getting - ie. a con job. Last time i checked, this is what all the madison avenue types who design adverts were up to... > You won't see any PD realtime systems with *anyone's* name on it. > > Actually, come to think of it, I wrote a polled multitasker for Forth > that should be usable for realtime work. Took all of 48 lines of code. things are looking up..... > I'll dig it up and let you do the other 95% of the work. i'll have to get a bit more knowledge - after all, it'd help if i actually *knew* how to write a realtime system that was useful for something more than running a model train..... > Hardly sounds like a serious effort. nothing i do is a serious effort. > I condemn paragraph 2b of the GPL. As I understand it he's the one > responsible for that. I find his motives laudable when it comes to > writing code, but his attempts to use the force of the state to impose his > morals on others are despicable. well, i disagree with you there. i think that he's just playing the game by the rules and using them to his advantage - the same thing that MicroSoft Corp., Apple Corp., Lotus Corp. IBM Corp., et. all do. Now, there are people who are in the middle - who want to get the benefits of rms' (i assume - don't know him that well) good will without paying the prices that he wants to charge... it can hurt the middle men who don't want to take a stand - but rms forces us all to take a stand on something - even if it is the GPL or paragraph 2b..... > -- > Peter "Have you hugged your wolf today" da Silva > `-_-' > 'U` "I haven't lost my mind, it's backed up on tape somewhere" iain the flippant | You'll PAY To Know What You REALLY Think | jb3o@andrew.cmu.edu(INTERNET) | Your MIND Left Intentionally Blank | R746JB3O@cmccvb(BITNET) | SCIENCE DOES NOT REMOVE THE TERROR OF THE GODS| disclaimer: anything I say may be wrong - I don't represent anyone but me