Path: utzoo!censor!geac!alias!kpicott%alias@csri.utoronto.ca From: kpicott%alias@csri.utoronto.ca (Socrates) Newsgroups: ont.general Subject: Re: Sunday Shopping (the law is a Con) Message-ID: <693@alias.UUCP> Date: 22 Dec 89 18:33:17 GMT References: <259070BE.2B0F@telly.on.ca> Sender: kpicott@alias.UUCP Reply-To: kpicott%alias@csri.utoronto.ca (Socrates) Distribution: ont Organization: Alias Research Inc. Lines: 118 In article <259070BE.2B0F@telly.on.ca> evan@telly.on.ca (Evan Leibovitch) writes: >So what? There are laws that dictate the maximum number of hours you can >be forced to work. If you do Sunday, you'll get another day off. > Forced, yes. Coerced, no. More likely that if you do Sunday you'll get paid and be happy that you are making more. >Think of it another way - people willing to work >Sunday will be more valuable, and probably paid more, than those who >won't. The flexibility is worth something to a store owner, and people >willing to work Sunday will be able to command higher wages. > Sounds like discrimination on the basis of religion to me. To use a popular example- people willing to work without carrying daggers or wearing turbans will bring in more customers (more racists anyway) so they will be able to command higher wages. >Don't fool yourself. The number of people who either work weekends at >the office or bring their work home with them is higher than you may >think. > Not *every* weekend and not at *specific* hours. (I might work 1 hour on one Saturday then 14 the next one depending on what needs to be don.) That's the difference between being task-oriented like in an office, and being hour-oriented, like in a store. >So who's holding a gun to your head to remain a retail worker? > Okay, all retail workers -- get a real job!! You heard it here first. Now when you go out shopping on Saturday and find that the stores are closed because noone works retail you can gather your own food. To answer your question: society. Work retail or starve; simple choice. >I can think of many kinds of stores which would not >open Sundays even if it they could. A place like a Grand & Toy, for >instance, which caters to businesses, would likely find Sundays to be >its quietest days, and stay closed. > >Even if it is true, why can the store not close on its lightest day instead? > I think you missed the point here. The point was that if other stores in the same business opened on Sunday they would draw away enough customers to make it necessary to open on Sunday. >> When a small store of 4 employees is open on Sundays, at least 25% if the >>staff is going to *have* to work Sundays, law or no law. > >So? The person doing that shift gets paid more in return for the sacrifice. >Or brownie points. Or closer to a promotion. I don't know anyone who got >ahead in life by just working 9 to 5. > What if nobody wants to sacrifice their family life? Fire them? Give them a lower pay scale? Not everybody thinks that earning more money is the best way to approach happiness. Once upon a time... >Retail workers who can't stand working on Sundays will look for employment >outside the retail field. Companies who fire workers who don't work >Sundays will find that they just don't have enough workers for the rest >of the week. Retail workers will be harder to find. Pay will increase, >as the Sunday element will make retail workers more scarce (and thus >more valuable) than office personnel. > .. and everyone lives happy ever after. Scenarios like this are well to imagine when justifying your own point of view, but consider the alternatives too. "Retail workers who can't stand working on Sundays will look for employment outside the retail field, but being unqualified will go onto unemployment for a while then finally welfare. Companies who fire workers who don't work Sundays will find that they can pay lower and lower wages as people begin to do anything to hang onto their sole means of support. Retail workers will be easy to manage, being docile to the whim of the employers. Pay will decrease, as the Sunday element will give retail workers less job security than office personnel." Now, a more realistic approximation: "Retail workers who can't stand working on Sundays will swallow their pride and work some Sundays because they can really use the money to support their familys, who are now shopping 7 days a week instead of 6. Companies who fire workers who don't work Sundays will be brought up on charges and will be forced to use coercion to get rid of employees who don't want to work Sundays, or will hire cheap part-time labour for that one day a week. Good retail workers will be harder to find, but part-time workers such as students and homemakers will abound. Pay will decrease, since part-time workers can be paid lower wages and job turnover will be on the order of weeks instead of the current months. >- You don't buy the superior Japanese car, but the inferior American > one because it will keep GM workers from getting laid off; > >- When you buy clothing, you're always willing to pay the premium price for > Canadian goods in order to protect the home lives of our textile workers; > >- You buy lots of fur products, because those hunters have been having a > rough time making a living since the animal rights groups got involved; > >- And, of course, you lobby the government for higher vegetable prices, > to give our farmers a decent living. > A stellar argument for Sunday shopping, if I've ever heard one. Even if it had any relevance you neglect the possibility that he might do all of these things, making this a non-point. What exactly *was* your point here? >My heart bleeds... > (Always wanted to say this) Of course it does, otherwise you wouldn't have any circulation. I am still waiting on a justification for Sunday shopping that isn't laced with the "Me first" attitude. Wake me when one comes. -- Kevin Picott aka Socrates aka kpicott%alias@csri.toronto.edu Alias Research Inc. R+D Toronto, Ontario... like, downtown "There can be no offense where none is taken" - Japanese proverb