Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: hplabs!scottg@hp-ptp.hp.com (Scott_Gulland) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: inconsistencies in the Bible (digest of postings) Message-ID: Date: 1 Jan 90 15:58:16 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: HP Indus. Appl. Center, Sunnyvale, CA Lines: 172 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu From: nunes@ai.toronto.edu (Joe Nunes) >>will be due to my own lack of understanding and not to God's inability >>to give us a completely consistent message. I welcome the challenge. I myself believe in the Biblical account of creation as stated and that this account is scientifically correct. I am also of the belief that the vast majority of creationist and non-creationist alike use interpretations that are scientifically absurd. This is why Genesis appears to be so inconsistant. However, not all creationist adhere to such ridiculous interpretations and all of the material below comes from research perfromed by Dr. Hugh Ross (Ph. D. in Astronomy). > OK. Here's one. > > There are two versions of Creation. In Version 1 (Gen 1:10-31), God creates > plants on the third day (before He created the sun and the moon, by the way; > they were created on the fourth day), sea creatures and birds on the fifth day, As you can see by the author's comment, this interpretation of version 1 is not very credible. Here is another interpetation which does not contradict scientific knowledge about nature of the creation of the universe and earth. One of the most important things to establish in order to interpret Genesis one correctly is its frame of reference (or viewpoint) and the initial conditions. This is given in Gen 1:1-2. The text is given as follows (NIV translation): "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Clearly it can be seen from above that the section indicating the frame of reference is "the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters". In other words, the events of creation are being described from the perspective of an observer on the surface of the ocean, which at that time covered the entire Earth, and BELOW the cloud layers. The initial conditions indicate that the earth is formless and empty (a more accurate tranlation of the Hebrew words, here, might be "unorganized and empty"). Note that the universe and the earth already exist (and by inference the sun). Finally, it is dark on the surface of the deep. DAY 1: Gen 1:3-5 "And God said, 'Let there be light,' and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light 'day,' and the darkness he called 'night.' And there was evening, and there was morning - the first day." The surface of the Earth begain in darkness (verse 2) because at its earilest formative stages the Earth had a reducing atmosphere, (i.e. an atmosphere much like that of Jupiter wherein elements tend to combine with hydrogen). This atmosphere most likely was dominated by ammonia and methane (which absorbs light). For light to penetrate to the Earth's surface to the degree required for photosynthesis, the atmosphere somehow had to be transformed from reducing to oxidizing, i.e. to in which substances tend to combine with oxygen, rather than with hydorgen. For this atmospheric change to be made without the loss of water that is vital for land life was an extremely delicate operation. Methane has a molecular weigth of 16; ammonia, 17; and water, 18. The trans- formation had to allow for the evaporation from the Earth's atmosphere of both methane and ammonia but the retention of the slightly heavier water. The probability of success for this atmospheric transfromation for any given planet is much less than one in a billion. Thus, the changing of the Earth's atmosphere from opaque (light-absorbing) to translucent (light-diffusing) without loss of water stands as the first of the Genesis miracles whereby God was preparing the Earth for life. Day and night, from the perspective of an observer on the Earth's surface, become recognizable only when light can diffuse through the cloud cover. So, "day" and "night" are defined at this point Day 2: Gen 1:6-8 (Simple Summary Statement Only) Establishment of a stable water cycle. Day 3: Gen 1:9-13 (Simple Summary Statement Only) Appearance of dry land and the vegetation upon the land. DAY 4: Gen 1:14-19 "And God said, 'Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, and let their be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth.' And it was so. God made two great lights. The greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning - the fourth day." To give you a better feeling for the original text, here are the major Hebrew words in the first segment of text above and their definitions. The words "Let there be" is the translation for the Hebrew word 'HAYAH'. The word "expanse" corresponds to the Hebrew word RAWQIYA. The word "sky" corresponds to the Hebrew word SHAMAYIM. The definition of these Hebrew words are as follows: HAYAH: become; cause to appear or arise; cause to be made or done; come into existence; come to pass; make into something. RAWQIYA: (apparently) visible dome of the sky; (technically, the atmosphere immediately above the surface of the earth) SHAMAYIM: visible dome of the sky above and in which the clouds move; the realm in which the celestial bodies move; the spiritual real in which God and the angels dwell and operate. - with respect to the above definitions; whenever shamayim is used with erets (earth), as in Gen 1:1, the combination refers to the entire physical universe. For some time after the transformation of the Earth's atmosphere to an oxidizing one, a combination of high carbon dioxide levels (greenhouse effect), volcanic active, and very high humidity would have prevented any break in the cloud cover. Fossil evidence supports this very humid atmosphere of primative Earth. Over time a decrease in volcanic activity, carbon dioxide levels (consummed by plant life), and stabilized air temperature and pressure all contributed to a break in the cloud cover. Thus the appearance of the Sun, Moon, and Stars. > and all beasts of the earth on the sixth day. After all this, God creates Man, > also ... much text deleted. > > In Version 2 (Gen 2:4-24), God creates Adam before anything else. Then God > creates ... much text deleted. > > Note that the first version specifically states that *every* winged fowl was > created before man, whereas the second version states that *every* fowl of > the air was created after man. The first version does in all actuality say that birds were created before Man. However, the second version does NOT state birds were created after man. This is just a mis-interpretation on the basis of a shallow reading of the English translation. Genesis 1 focuses on the Physical events of creation; Genesis 2 focuses on the spiritual events. More specifically, Genesis 1 describes the miracles God performed to prepare the earth for mankind. Genesis 2 presents God's assignment of authority and responsibility. Further, in order to determine the intended chronological sequencing of the text, you MUST go to the original Hebrew text. The Hebrew language has only three verb tenses: imperative, perfect, and imperfect. The perfect tense indicates completed actions while the imperfect tense denotes incomplete or unfinished actions. The perfect tense is used in Genesis 2:19 for the formation of the beast and birds. This simply implies that those creatures were made sometime in the past. Additionally, to denote sequence relationships a special ending is used in the verbs. This ending is not present in Genesis 2:19. Careful attention to verb tense and the purpose of each account rules out any supposed contradiction between Genesis 1 and 2. Plants, rain, man, animals and woman are subjects of discussion in Genesis 2, but creation chronology is not the issue. Adam simply interacts first with the plants, then with animals, and last of all, with Eve. I believe that all of the contradictions listed so far are not contradictions but paradoxes. And paradoxes can be resolved by a variety of means as I have resolved this one. Scott Gulland scottg@hpiacla ---------------