Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!clyde.concordia.ca!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Sullivan
From: Sullivan@cup.portal.com (sullivan - segall)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Xerox sues Apple!!! (GUI
Message-ID: <25677@cup.portal.com>
Date: 6 Jan 90 20:54:20 GMT
References: <89122504041230@masnet.uucp>
Distribution: na
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 127

>
>Totally aside from the Mac/IBM debating, I'm curious about how people
>feel about GUI designs in general (you too, Amigoids).
>
Gee, thanks! :)

>Some comments:
>
>Don't design the GUI so that the user needs pixel-precision to do
>things! After my morning gallon of coffee, the last thing I want to
>do is line things up to pixels.  I like objects that recognize
>themselves as wholes, and especially auto-caddish features like
>"attach to endpoint".
>

I don't know of any GUI's which require pixel precision pointing.
What I really hate are joystick, and keyboard arrow (ala Freelance)
interfaces.

>In one of my user interface design books (I'll look up the specifics
>if anyone is curious) numerous studies were cited in which menu
>driven and iconic interfaces were proven to be effective methods for
>(a) novices and (b) small command sets, especially hierarchical
>command sets.  They were shown to be more of an annoyance in large
>command sets and with experienced users.  
>
The Amiga GUI is IMHO the best of both worlds.  There are some flaws
that I'll point out in a bit, but to summarize what I mean by the BEST:

    * The desktop is optional.  I only use it for loading programs,
      reading readme files, and other one-item only jobs.  I never
      use it for disk maintenance, copying or installing programs,
      editing, compiling, or other command line option intensive 
      tasks.

    * Each icon is a separate file, all programs which are runnable
      from the desktop can also be run from the command line interface
      (CLI) without the icon file.  The CLI itself exists under intuition, 
      so it can be resized, and can use different fonts, can be put on top
      of, or under other windows, etc.  The CLI includes all of the 
      commands that you would expect to find, so you can type (eg.):
         del #?.bak 
      to delete all filenames ending in ".bak".  Filenames are not 
      case sensitive, and can be any length (no eight letter plus three
      letter extension limitations.)

    * Icons for project type files (like text files) include a default
      tool.  The default tool can be easily changed, or can be loaded 
      into another program without changing the default tool by SHIFT-
      CLICKING on the desired tool.

    * The operating system is highly customiseable.  User tasks can be
      inserted instead of operating system tasks almost anywhere the 
      user would like them.  Public domain input handlers, mouse
      accellerators, screen blankers, macro key expanders, system 
      beep replacers, and other custom programs are very common.

Problems:

    * Since the right mouse button is used to select menu items, you might
      expect the menus to be selectable from anywhere on the screen.  
      Although some applications have implemented this feature, normally
      pull down menus are only available from the top of the screen.  
      However, using a second mouse button for menus means that you can
      completely ignore the right mouse button (intuition takes care of
      menus for you) and only get left mouse button events.  This makes
      programming the Amiga much easier.  (Of course, you can ask intuition
      to give you right mousebutton events transparently if you don't 
      want to use intuition menus.

    * Since the desktop isn't required to use the machine, it isn't the
      cleanest GUI in the world.  Although the machine is multitasking,
      the desktop is not.  While a directory is being opened, the desktop
      input is blocked, so files can't be selected and opened until the
      process has completed.  (Of course the CLI is still available 
      assuming that you have one open.)  Each CLI is also monotasking
      but as many CLI's can be opened as you like, and there is a DOS
      command to run CLI commands in the background without opening
      a new CLI.

    * Some of the niceties of the MAC were designed into the Amiga, but
      ignored by almost every developer.  The prime example of this is 
      the clipboard.  To cut and paste text between applications you
      have to get a PD utility like SnipIt which uses character recognition
      algorithms to convert from screen text back to ASCII.  (Of course
      some developers *do* support the clipboard, so it isn't always 
      neccessary to do so.  Keyboard maps are also only sporadically 
      supported.  Although normal input is interpreted through the keymaps,
      many programmers use raw-key codes to determine when special keys
      have been pressed, and then forget to translate normal keys.  This
      can make using a Dvorak keyboard, or a foreign alphabet keyboard
      extremely annoying.

>On a Mac, if I create a bunch of files (say 30) that all contain the
>string "foobar" in their name, can I delete "??foobar.*" without
>pointing at every blinking file?  I've never figured out how.
>
By default the Amiga uses "#?" as a match all.  Several replacement
CLI's or replacement DOS commands support "*" as well.  It has frequently
been argued whether or not the "#?" is more powerful.  The "#" means 
'match any number of'.  The "?" means 'match any character'.  One could
just as easily write "#a" to match filenames with any number of "a"'s.

>...so don't worry." PC's look at it notably differently.  They say
>"There are objects, and there  are tools.  Use any tool you want on
>any object.  It's up to you to figure out the right tool for the
>job."  I prefer the latter schema, because it is inherently more
>powerful.  More dangerous, but more powerful.  In addition, I think
>
Whether or not it is better, it is certainly possible to use project
files ignoring their default bindings.  However since it isn't neccessary
to use an icon with a file, users frequently delete them.  Once the 
icon has been deleted, it can only be accessed from the CLI until the
icon is replaced.  (Adding icons for files can only be done from the CLI.)

>Comments welcome (especially from Amigoids, since I've never used
>one). -Roger

Many of the problems listed about the Amiga desktop are scheduled to be
fixed in version 1.4 of the operating system (which is due this year.) 
The desktop will (from early accounts) include a facility for manipulating
files without icons, and will be multitasking.  There is also a freely 
distributable replacement for the desktop which already fixes these 
problems (but which is somewhat buggy as yet, but is also only a beta
release).  
---
Sullivan@cup.portal.com