Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!zephyr.ens.tek.com!tekig5!waynekn
From: waynekn@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Wayne Knapp)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Black Belt Video
Summary: Some people don't listen
Message-ID: <5357@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM>
Date: 10 Jan 90 23:31:15 GMT
References: <1182@m3.mfci.UUCP>
Distribution: comp
Organization: Tektronix Inc., Beaverton, Or.
Lines: 87

> I'm posting these for Ben Williams of Black Belt systems.  He does not
> usenet access.

> To Wayne Knapp:
> ...
> We utilize 16 pixels as the cookie, which leaves quite a bit 
> of data bandwidth (per line) left over.
> ...
Yes I realise my error and that you only use 8 lines vs. the 24
lines I though (in the interlace mode).  I already acknowledge my
error your posting is late. 

Still there is a very real bandwidth problem when it come to doing
real-time playback of animation in the Black Belt modes.  The problem
has nothing to do with the Black Belt box or the Black Belt data.  The
problem is that the Amiga is a dog in 16 color medium or 16 color high
res..  Most programs run great in low or lace res. no matter the number
of colors, but animation and real-time graphics programs really suffer
in high res..  Most of the nice animtions so far have been done in low,
lace or HAM modes.  Often the Amiga is pushed to the limit to get 15
frames a second out.  In the high res. modes there is a limited amount
of time the processor can access the CHIP RAM.  From my programming I've
seen about a 60% reduction in graphics speed in high res. as compared
to low res..  So this will make real-time animation hard to do or at least
limited.  ( Note: not only is there less time to update the CHIP RAM in
high res. but there is also upto 4 times as much information to change. 
The speed can be a little better without overscan).

Single-frame recording is always an option.  The low resolution animation
will look really nice, but if one has enough money to do single-framing
why mess with a kludge solution like this anyway?  Note I think that outside
of animation uses the box will be nice.  

> As for having hardware to loan to people, you have to realize 
> where we are in the development cycle - when we have hardware, 
> we'll make it available.
> Black Belt has a number of Amiga products it has already produced, 
> including hardware with FCC approval and a great deal more complexity 
> than this box... we know what we are doing, and intend to put 
> out just what we say we are.
>
I responding to what I was told by someone who called you directly in
reguards to getting the box to use.  He has access to several programs
that are currently selling well as far as Amiga software goes and he
could add enhancements to support the Black Belt box.  However he was told
that there are no price breaks for developers, that basicly Black Belt
was too small of a company to try and support developers so they would
just have to pay the $300 and wait for a box.  Now you say you have 
other Amiga products out and I've never even heard of you before.  Yet
you except us developers to take a lot of time to change our code for
this box.  I say go jump in a lake and let the cold water wake you up.

As far as I know I'm the only person that has a compressed 24bit file
format that works well on the Amiga and it isn't released yet.  Programs
that produce 24bit color on the Amiga are far and few inbetween.  It
seems to be that 32 color programs are going to take a lot of work before
there will really use this box well.  I bet it will take a mouth to get
a program like DPaint III all set up for the Black Belt mode.  There are
requestors, fonts, low level screen IO, blitter rountines, possible 
pointer problems, IFF changes and who know what else.  It could be a big
job.  Then if you sell a few thousand of your boxes and a few hunderd
of those people buy updates to the code the programer might break even.
Seems like the programer is the guy who is most likely to lose in this
deal.  No Thanks!  Maybe new code will support this box but I won't be
updating my old code very soon.

> You are, of course, entitled to your opinions... but at least, 
> if you're going to try and take technical pot shots, do your 
> math right, ok? :*)
> 
> Ben
> 
Hey if you are going to flame me at least get yourself current with
the news!  I wasn't taking technical pot shots at your I was listing
valid concerns I had about the Black Belt box and animation.  Yes some
of my math was in error (I don't know what I was thinking) but I think
I listed valid conerns that deserve a reasonable response.

However I will take a pot shot at you now.  In the posting about how
the Black Belt video works (a really nice posting by the way) there 
is detail about the 8 bit HAM mode.  The posting states that over
260,000 colors are possible on screen.  Well isn't that a bit hard
with less than 40,000 pixels.  (Should say something like > 30,000
colors out of 260,000 possible).  Maybe we should all watch our math
a little closer. 
  
                                         Wayne Knapp