Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!caesar.cs.montana.edu!ogicse!decwrl!jumbo!barker!msm From: msm@src.dec.COM (Mark S. Manasse) Newsgroups: comp.windows.news Subject: Re: Window systems should not be substitutes for decent environments Keywords: X11 NeWS C interpreters threads Message-ID: <14286@jumbo.dec.com> Date: 11 Jan 90 20:13:44 GMT References: <13337@granite.BBN.COM> <4458@crdgw1.crd.ge.com> <8912162135.AA03025@iris.rand.org> <4290@crdgw1.crd.ge.com> <4392@crdgw1.crd.ge.com> <2405@bacchus.dec.com> Sender: news@jumbo.dec.com Reply-To: msm@src.dec.COM (Mark S. Manasse) Organization: DEC Systems Research Center Lines: 35 In article <13337@granite.BBN.COM>, mlandau@bbn.com (Matt Landau) writes: > This is a crock. The basic point is this: the X11 protocol simply > does not allow me, as an application writer, to decide what parts of > my application belong close to the user (in the server, where they > can provide fast feedback, etc.) and what parts belong in the client. > The only way for me to change this is to write my own server extensions > and only allow my application to run with servers that have my extensions. > In effect, I have to get into the X server business if I want to be > able to do certain things. > Stuff and nonsense. The X11 protocol does *allow* you to do this. You, as an application writer, are free to decide what part of your application belongs close to the user. You, as an application writer, can then write two programs, communicating by whatever means you choose, one of which is generally intended to execute on the same machine as your X server, bringing it about as close as is interesting. I'm not going to defend every aspect of X as perfect, but it seems to me that your point is not that X isn't as good a window system, but that it isn't as good at providing threads, defining communication protocols, being a programming language, and supplying dynamic loading. All quite true. But I don't understand why you don't want all of these things available to the part of your client that isn't coresident with your window system server. When I'm backpacking, I eat my food with a spoon that I bring along. When I'm in more civilized environs, I use nicer utensils. Right now, the operating system environments generally force you to eat with your fingers when you use X, and with your camping spoon when you use NeWS. Once we get around to buying some nice flatware, I'll rejoice that I didn't succumb to the temptation to have a spoon epoxied to my hand. Mark