Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!shadooby!samsung!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!rutgers!att!cbnews!military From: rsiatl!jgd@gatech.edu (John G. De Armond) Newsgroups: sci.military Subject: Re: Lessons Learned Keywords: lessons, grenada, panama Message-ID: <12762@cbnews.ATT.COM> Date: 4 Jan 90 04:24:52 GMT References: <12601@cbnews.ATT.COM> <12694@cbnews.ATT.COM> Sender: military@cbnews.ATT.COM Organization: Radiation Systems, Inc. (a thinktank, motorcycle, car and gun works facility) Lines: 95 Approved: military@att.att.com From: rsiatl!jgd@gatech.edu (John G. De Armond) In article <12694@cbnews.ATT.COM> terryr@ogicse.ogc.edu (Terry Rooker) writes: > > >From: terryr@ogicse.ogc.edu (Terry Rooker) > >There is already information leaking that Panama may have been as much >as a fiasco as Grenada, we just made different mistakes. The biggest >failing once again was the lack of good intelligence. Au contraire. It appears to me that we did an exceptionally good of intelligence. Read on. >All the >satellites and recon pictures in the world can only tell you so much. >It appears that the Panamanians had better intelligence than the US >forces. For example apparently 20 Navy SEALs landed at a supposedly >lightly or not defended airfield. There were at least 3 APCs waiting >at the airfield. According to the newspaper, the reason appears to be a matter of common treason and not lack of intelligence. It was reported that the reason the SEALs were met by PDF forces AND why Noriega managed to elude capture is because someone (media speculation: state department) made a phone call to Noriega a couple of days before the attack and warned him of the impending invasion. Seems to me that the gallows need to be dusted off instead of criticizing this mission. >Another indication of the lack of planning and/or foresight. The US >went in and conducted a good military operation. Appaerntly none of >the planning even considered any measures to control the political and >social chaos that would be caused by an abrupt removal of the de facto >government. Again, based on news reports, just the opposite seems to be true. CNN did a special a few days ago on the social side of the invasion. They noted the extremely GOOD job the military has done to win and keep the loyality of the population. Several soldiers interviewed reported to have received welcomes like they read about the Allies receiving in liberated France. If your comments about "lack of foresight" refer to the looting and riots that happened the first day or so, my comment would be that concern for this HAD to be of low priority in the beginning. Securing the country, protecting the Canal and capturing Noriega had to take priority. And quite frankly (and being very nationalist here), I'd hate to think American military lives had been risked exclusively to protect Panamanian assets from Panamanians. >In addition it seems that it is yet another >failure of the US intelligence community. (Maybe with peristroika we >can get the KGB to give us some pointers on running HUMINT operations:-) You should note that the evidence of the treasonous phone call was provided by intelligence intercepts. Even without that consideration, I think they did damn well, especially considering the Carter administration sponsored dismantling of our intelligence community. (Sorry about that political interjection, Bill. I just get real mad every time I think about Carter and the fact he came from MY state.) And finally, I'll say that we all should remember that in times of war, mistakes ARE made. After all, the enemy is doing all he can to help us along in that area. The difference between, say WWII or Korea and now is that back then we lacked a agressive and treasonous media in WWII. Now, whenever someone gets shot, there are 20 camera lenses in the guy's face recording his suffering. I was working late and had CNN on the night of the invasion. The behavior of CNN was abhorrent. By 2 o'clock, they were out trolling trying to find someone to say something bad about the invasion. No one from Congress (!) would say anything bad. About the best they could do was to interview other journalists who were very free with criticism. I also watched as the anchors of CNN tried to find a Congresscritter who could be tricked or induced to reveal aspects of the secret briefings. I wonder what CNN and Teddy-boy would have said had some critter leaked something that cost lives? To me, that we moved 20k troops into a foreign country in an invasion and took control with only 20 odd casualties is a miracle. Though I feel sadness for those killed or wounded, the small number is a first rate testamonial for our planning and intelligence. Sure, let's slam the military when they buy $600.00 hammers but let's be fair when the system works. John -- John De Armond, WD4OQC | The Fano Factor - Radiation Systems, Inc. Atlanta, GA | Where Theory meets Reality. emory!rsiatl!jgd **I am the NRA** |