Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!shadooby!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: rit!cs!ritcv!iav1917@cs.rochester.edu (alan i. vymetalik) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Some thoughts on "Christian Music" (was Re: Petra Praise) Message-ID: Date: 4 Jan 90 07:30:03 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Rochester Institute of Technology, Rochester, NY Lines: 223 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article iba@ics.uci.edu (Wayne Iba) writes: > >Several points in response to recent discussion on christian music: > >First, all lists of various artists left out a particular musician -- >Phil Keaggy. This was inexcusable. Phil is realistically the best >musician playing "christian" music and is generally agreed to be >"one of the best guitarists in the world at large". He's an example >to me of "doing whatever you do as unto the Lord". Yes, I forgot Phil Keaggy, Sheila Walsh, Bruce Caroll, BeBe & CeCe Winans, Twila Paris, 2nd Chapter of Acts, SCB (Sweet Comfort Band), Stryper (oops, should have forgotten them again), Carman, First Call, Scott Wesley Brown, and a bunch more. Sorry, I didn't mean to leave out anyone's favorite. Yes, not including Keaggy was a big oversight. "Martha, that boy should be horse-whipped. Now, find me that horse!" Now, personally, I prefer Kerry Livgren's work. In my opinion, humble and otherwise, he deserves a lot more exposure and support than he has received. He's probably one of the most highly-underrated Christian musicians around. He's also one of the best composers and songwriters of the last decade. That's not just my opinion, by the way... >Music is a highly opinionated issue. (However, my previous paragraph Of course it is. See my previous paragraph. >is un-opinionated and represents objective truth :). However, >I think one issue that came up before and that is probably appropriate >for discussion here is what role music made by christians should have. Ah, I see someone picked up the underlying thought I wanted people to pick up on. Not the commerciality. Not the spandex. Not just the music itself. I've talked about this aspect to a couple of people who e-mailed me directly. The point of my postings was just to get people talking about this subject in general. >Someone suggested that somehow christian musicians had a responsibility >to "win souls" through their music. I find this rediculous. This >is a manifestation of the tendancy to "redeemify" everything. Your car >has to have a fish or dove on the back, your skate-board has to have >appropriate christian stickers on it, etc. Basically, everything >needs to be "sanctified" by putting scripture quotes and fishes on it. Iconization (the process of using symbology to represent your religious affiliation) is a tough thing to avoid. It is a method of advertising and it's used to connect your prospective "customer" with your "product." If you appeal to people this way and "hook" them, it makes your job easier. Livgren's music stayed away from this icon usage to a great extent and his music grabbed a hold of me more powerfully than most other Christian (or secular) music ever did. Fish signs and scripture quotes are powerful advertising tools. Think, next time, about your personal feelings at the time you see a McDonald's logo, the Chevy symbol, the AT&T "death star", the American flag... etc. But, I don't think the goal is to "sanctify" everything in this manner. I may be wrong (I have been before...) Also, I don't, personally, feel that most musicians consciously try to "sanctify" their music. I feel that they try to cue the listener into the source of the inspiration of their music. Petra is an example of this. Some go a bit too far: Stryper, for example. The spandex and vinyl-covered Bibles for their audience are a bit much, if you ask me. Even Styper's name has the underlying reference to a verse by Isiah. When you're just using the symbology to get the listener's attention and then you don't do anything meaningful (in a spiritual manner) with your material, then you're just trying to pull your listener's purse strings. I'm not even sure that the winning of souls through music is THE goal of any Christian musician. However, if the music catches someone's attention and cues them into the Scriptures and meeting/prayer groups and a greater awareness of the Lord, then, hey, all power to the musicians and their music! This is what I see the role of music (Christian and otherwise) to be. Music has become such a powerful influence in our lives that we can't ignore it, let alone avoid it (see below). The role of the Christian musician could easily said to be the "first line of offense" to grab ahold of those haven't found their way to the Lord on their own or through the help of a friend. Is it that important "how" you got there, but rather that you "did" get there? Interesting question. Another topic for discussion... >It is people that need redemption -- not things (IMHO). It shouldn't be "IMHO." It should be a certainty! No "thing" needs redemption. A "thing" doesn't have a soul and, I am absolutely certain, that it doesn't care one way or another about its redemption. ;-) However, people, on the other hand, should care. They should care a lot. I know of many people who have felt a lot stronger about their own personal redemption due to the "call" of music. I've even felt the tugging of my "heart strings," if you will, when I listen to music. To continue on a little more about music... Music is such a powerful influence on people's lives. And, it has become more influential over the last twenty or so years. It's in the commercials, the movies, the TV shows, the radio, the sports outings, the family picnics, bars... the list goes on and on. I can't think of many places you can go these days and NOT hear music... Elevators, rest rooms, air planes, low-Earth orbit aboard the shuttle, etc. etc. (don't get esoteric on me now!)... Music holds a powerful "control" over many of us (myself included... I do music reviews, concert reviews, and generally feel more comfortable with life if I'm listening to music... Tangerine Dream is now playing through my headphones as I write this posting). Music can also be a tool that molds and shapes the way we think and act. Witness the "high success" of secular heavy metal and rock music has over the world's youth. Millions upon millions of dollars are spent on records, tapes, CDs, T-shirts, concerts, clothes, haircuts, make-up, and other fashion items simply because a particular teen enjoys a particular group (hey, I am guilty of this myself...so, I can't throw any stones, can I?). This not only adds up economically, but it has an effect on the people who eventually grow up and enter the commercial, political, and social circles that control the world. But, what's really important to grasp here is that most of the music out there is of a truly secular origin. Now, of course, there is a lot of fantastic, moving, and personally-enriching music that exists that is neither totally secular nor totally religious in nature. Several people did a job of pointing out that various artists (Bob Dylan, Dan Fogelberg, Bruce Cockburn, etc.) create music that talks about the "human condition, life, frailties, and all" that sometimes far exceeds the messages found in "Christian-style" music. This kind of music tends to grip us tightly because it is contemporary and deals with contemporary things. It shows us solutions, sometimes, to our problems. It sometimes tells us that the solutions are complex, and not easily arrived at. But, it's the ton after ton of music that does nothing more than sell records and make company executives rich and fat that bothers me. I am not sure I want to jump head first into these treacherous waters. I am sure I'm going to get flamed as it is! It's this area that concerns musicians. I suppose that commerciality of Christian music has done as much to help the genre as hurt it. But, I suppose that I would prefer to spend my money and time listening to those musicians (Christian and otherwise) that took the time to enrich mankind's spiritual situation rather than other musicians. Now, of course, the original reason for my postings on this whole subject was to remind people that, despite the "garbage" that is creeping into the arena of Christian music, there is still a lot of "gold" to be found. You just have to look harder. There's garbage everywhere you look these days, to be sure, but at least when you dig through the garbage in Christian music, you eventually come up music that can be soul-uplifting and a potent addition to your spiritual life. After you've dug through piles of Aerosmith and Black Sabbath, et al., well, you've just got more of the same. I, personally, do not look for "religion" in that kind of music. I am upset that so many of our youth actually do. I am upset that the follow the words and music to such a dangerous level that their lives (both physical and spiritual) can sometimes be ruined horrendously. Now, no one said I can be a judge in these discussions. I am only stating my feelings, not my condemnation or approval. >Aside from any potential responsibility of the christian musician, >what role as listening christians should music have in our lives? >This is part of a larger question -- what role should entertainment >and recreation play in our lives? Now, I know I could go on and on about this topic, but I'll spare you all the agony. ;-) The point I'm striving to arrive at centers on the fact that Christian musicians truly have an important role in the shaping of our lives. For, if my thoughts and practices should be assisted with music, I would prefer it to be the music of Grant, Livgren, Petra, Keaggy, and many other Christian artists rather than Metallica, Black Sabbath, ad naseum. Of course, there are many other artists in the secular world I wouldn't want to ignore just because they don't record on a "religious record label." (There go those icons again...) I am simply concerned that we allow ourselves to be swallowed up in the "here and now" that we sometimes forget what is swallowing us! The role of the Christian musician (as well as entertainment and recreation) needs to be an assisting of our focusing on the truths and goals set forth for us by the Lord. If these activities go towards meeting those goals, then that is a beneficial thing. Even if the "nudging" is but a slight tickle in the back of our minds, it is still preferable than something that nudges us the other way. Anyway, there are so many other aspects that should be covered. But, space and time are finite things, and it's getting late. I am sure I left out some areas of discussion. I am also sure that several people will help point out my areas of deficiency. Let's keep the conversation going. The underlying concepts presented here can (and do) apply to many aspects our of lives beyond music and entertainment. > I would be interested in people's >thoughts on this. Those are my thoughts. Any more comments? I welcome any and all discussions on this topic or any other... "Only God can create a truly random number." -Anon "And, only God will know for sure if it IS a true random number." -me Enjoy, alan -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Alan I. Vymetalik, 2244 East Avenue #5, Rochester, New York, 14610-2518 USA, Phone: (716)-271-8528 ...!rochester!ritcv!iav1917 -or- ...!rochester!rit!ritcv!iav1917 ritcv!iav1917@rochester.UUCP -or- iav1917%ritcv@cs.rit.edu /If I can't be reached via any of the above e-paths, please write./ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=