Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: brandy@mimsy.umd.edu (Brandy R. Provine) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Self-Serving Beliefs Message-ID: Date: 7 Jan 90 03:47:26 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: U of Maryland, Dept. of Computer Science, Coll. Pk., MD 20742 Lines: 77 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article Dave Mielke clears up some of his earlier comments, by explaining that he was using the word `believe' differently than I expected. He did not, however, reply to some of the questions which were actually the more important part of my last article. In declaring a belief in free will to be `self-serving', Dave implied that the people who believe in it are only seeking to comfort themselves, or for some other selfish motive. My questions were intended to address the situation where a person who has a headache snaps at someone else says "I'm sorry I said that, I have a headache" instead of "I'm sorry I said that, I'm a sinful human." In such a situation, do you claim that the belief that headaches sometimes promote short-tempered behaviour is a self-serving one, only held by people who do not want to face up to their own sinfulness? If so, how do you address the problem that many Evangeligal Christians hold that belief? (These being people who, presumably, accept that humans are sinful.) If, on the other hand, you recognise the people might believe that headaches can cause hostile behaviour do so for reasons other than the wish to salve their own egos, why do you claim that a belief in free will is `self-serving'? Focusing back on the question of Scripture for a moment, Dave wrote: > >While I merely believe with a high degree of certainty that all of those >things you have mentioned are true, I know with 100% assurence that each >and every detail declared within the Scriptures is true. This ignores the problem that it is _people_ who read the Scriptures and who interpret them. Imperfect people who read perfect Scriptures *can* make mistakes, and misunderstand them. (Even if they are indwelt with the Holy Spirit -- several of Paul's letters in the New Testament were to Christians that had gotten matters confused.) Your description of free will as `self-serving' implies that you don't believe it is possible for people to make errors in belief, possibly even by misreading the Bible. Also, you say that you "know with 100% assurence" that the things taught in Scripture are true, but does that mean that you are 100% infallible in reading them? It often appears that you are claiming to be infallible in your articles by saying that some idea is definitely false or true; without recognising that you can make mistakes. The Bible has many examples of God's servants who erred due to their being sinful, limited humans: do you believe that you are better than they were? Do you claim that you are not affected by your human nature in the way that others have been? If you do not consider yourself infallible, why do you insist that any who disagree with you are necessarily wrong, without recognising that you might be wrong and the others correct? This is not saying that they are right and the Bible is wrong, but that the Bible is right and _you_ are wrong; you speak as if that can never happen, which sounds rather arrogant. Your apparent claim to perfection (which many believe is only true of God) is rather abrasive, and may have something to do with the occasionally unhappy replies to your articles in this group. brandy@cs.umd.edu Brandy R. Provine ...uunet!mimsy!brandy "If you have played the fool and exalted yourself [...] clap your hand over your mouth!" -- Proverbs 30:32 [I think you may be creating a dicotomy where there isn't one. First, the fact that headaches exist is often attributed to sinfulness. Not that every headache is a punishment for some sin, but that if we were not fallen, we would not have illness. Second, even if we did, it would not result in snapping at other people. I admit that the sort of situaation you outline isn't generally considered to be indicative of great spiritual depravity, but in principle many would say that it is due to sin. I find your emphasis that it is _people_ who read Scripture as rather ironic, coming from you. --clh]