Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!auvm!SCI!BRANIS From: branis@SCI.CCNY.CUNY.EDU (Spiros Branis) Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas Subject: (no subject given) Message-ID: <9002050048.AA18119@sci.ccny.cuny.edu> Date: 5 Feb 90 00:48:40 GMT Sender: The Hellenic Discussion List Reply-To: The Hellenic Discussion List Lines: 87 Approved: NETNEWS@AUVM Gateway KAI I SUNEHEIA........EPI TIS OTHONIS.... ______________________________________________________________________ Article 2111 of soc.culture.greek: Newsgroups: soc.culture.greek Subject: Re: CNN and Komotini (Gumulcine) Date: 5 Feb 90 00:12:26 GMT References: <7858@chaph.usc.edu> Organization: Clemson University, Clemson, SC Lines: 77 In article <7858@chaph.usc.edu>, guncer@nunki.usc.edu (Selim Guncer) writes: > > CNN World Report broadcasted two programs from the Turkish and > Greek TV's on the situation in Komotini. The programs were interesting > but misinformative. The major thing one can conclude out of the > two sides of the story is not the situation in Komotini but the > cold war between the Greek and Turkish governments. The programs were informative. They just showed the two sides of the coin. The impression I got was that the whole thing is overblown by the Turks. There is no great issue at stake, no violation of "basic rights". I agree it is just another episode in the cold war between Greece and Turkey. > > While the Turkish government is showing a big irresponsibility > in intervening with Greek politics, You are right on that. > I still find it hard to > believe that the Greek government still does not recognize the > raciality of the so called "muslim" minority. If the people > consider themselves as of "Turkish" origin, then noone has the > right to dictate who they are, no matter what the Lausanne treaty > says. This is awkward. There would not be any problems if there was an Italian minority in Greece because Greece and Italy have nothing to fight about. In the case of Turkey though, it is seen as an agreesive power aiming at hurting the security of Greece and its people. See the statements of the Turkish politicians, the military organization, and the problem of Cyprus. In this case, with the collaboration of a group of fanatics centered around the Moufti of Komotini which is used as a tool of Turkey's policies, the episodes are seen by many as falling in the pattern of Turkey's goals. > About the programs: The Turkish TV showed an excerpt from the > court proceedings of Sadik Ahmet and Ibrahim Serif, along with the > aftermath of the looting done by angry Greek "christians" on > Greek "muslim" property. The court proceedings had a subtitled > section where someone, whom I believe was the prosecutor, asked one > of the defendants whether he considered himself as a Greek citizen > of Greek origin or Turkish citizen. When the reply was that he > was a Greek citizen of Turkish origin the prosecutor accused > the defendant of diverting his question and calling him to > "go back to Turkey". I heard what the prosecutor said and I believe that the subtitles used by the Turkish TV did not accurately translate what he said. As a result it sounded as if the two could not communicate. The prosecutor asked Sadik: "Are you a Greek citizen and Greek native, or not?" (Ellin ypikoos me Elliniki ithageneia) The translation was: "Are you a Greek citizen and of Greek origin, or not?" I may not have the sentence exactly right, but the important thing is that the term ITHAGENEIA was translated as ORIGIN, which is not correct. At least this is my opinion. Someone else may want to comment to. Sadik's first answer was he did not know what the prosecutor meant and proceeded to say that he was a "Greek citizen of Turkish ancestry (or descent. (Turkikis KATAGWGIS) The prosecutor then said he did not care about his ancestry and asked the question again. Sadik said that he was "a Greek citizen and Turkish native" at which point the he was told to go and live in Turkey. By the way, I am still not comfortable with translating the word ITHAGENEIA to "being a native". Can someone help? > > ...and the Greek TV reflected its governments position of > diverting the racial tension which has affected so many people for > the past couple of years. There is no real issue here. Whether Greece recognizes them as Turks or not is immaterial. The issue is: are they protected by the law, are they living as equals with no discriminations by the state? There is no evidence to the contrary, and if it were be sure that you would have heard about it from Turkey. It is just another effort to bully Greece and falls in the general pattern of Ankara'a foreign policy. In this effort it has found several willing Moslem fanatics in Komotini. Michael Scordilis