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From: shap@delrey.sgi.com (Jonathan Shapiro)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.programmer
Subject: Re: MPW wish list
Message-ID: <3577@odin.SGI.COM>
Date: 5 Feb 90 18:37:47 GMT
References: <1990Jan23.065751.29303@peace.waikato.ac.nz> <6310@internal.Apple.COM> <3566@odin.SGI.COM> <10046@hoptoad.uucp>
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Since Tim Maroney either didn't think about my request or assumes I'm
foolish, let me expand on the editor problem.

The essential problems with the MPW editor are twofold.

First, it constantly makes me remove my hands from the home position
on the keyboard.  I am a computer-style touch typist (I type quickly,
but not always accurately), and this reduces my effective throughput
by at least a factor of five.

Why? because there is no way to move up/down a line or left/right a
character without reaching for either the mouse or the arrow keys.
The arrow keys don't help.  It isn't the distance to the mouse that's
the problem.  It's the fact that I must lift a hand, move it someplace
else, then bring it back, all of which takes time and a mental
reorientation to figure out what the hell I was up to.  Even 'vi',
which is pretty old as editors go, doesn't have this problem.  This is
a case where modality is appropriate; for some people the modality of
moving the hand is worse than the modality of a modal interface.

Second, the editor isn't programmable, which means that things like
the indentation technology might best be described as primative, and a
lot of things I have grown used to in more sophisitcated environments
I must once again live without.

So Tim suggests I use JOVE.

Setting aside the issue of whether JOVE is a reasonable editor (I like
it a lot better than vi, but the last time I used it it sure wasn't
EMACS yet), this doesn't address the problem of integration.

One of the things that is very well done in the MPW environment is the
fact that every window is a text editor window.  I like the ability to
compile a live file without the need to save it - it makes syntax
errors cheap to fix, and it feels very good.  Using JOVE I lose this
capability.

>>Also, the mac
>>editor isn't programmable, so the hacks I have put together to do
>>sophisticated indenting, etc. can't be done there.
>
>How so?  You can run both tools and scripts in the editor, and add your
>own keyboard shortcuts to do them if you like.

I encourage you to attempt to add a keyboard shortcut for "backwards
character" without the use of a macro facility (it can be done).  I
encourage you to then try "page down", which can't be done even with a
keyboard macro, and certainly can't be done with a shortcut.

How about "next-window"?

Indenting is most effective when interactive.  The ability to run a
tool to indent things after the fact just doesn't give the right kind
of support.

The editor should, if MPW is designed right, be a separate code
resource(s), and should have a well-defined interface taht could be
implemented by an alternative.  I would be happy to try and do this
myself and might even consider giving the results away (depending on
the complexity) if I can get some help from Apple on implementing it.


Jonathan Shapiro