Xref: utzoo news.groups:17384 talk.religion.newage:5641 Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!hoptoad!tim From: tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) Newsgroups: news.groups,talk.religion.newage Subject: Re: CALL FOR DISCUSSION: talk.religion.pagan (UNMODERATED) Message-ID: <10081@hoptoad.uucp> Date: 6 Feb 90 15:14:29 GMT References: <4093@jarthur.Claremont.EDU> Reply-To: tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) Organization: Eclectic Software, San Francisco Lines: 47 In article cje@elbereth.rutgers.edu (Cthulhu's Jersey Epopt) writes: >I voted against the moderated t.r.p. because a) in general I don't like >moderated newsgroups, and b) I didn't know the proposed moderator enough to >trust his judgment. All I know about him is that he never tried to address the inclusiveness issues I raised, made a ridiculous claim that ten votes out of thirty showed a strong consensus for his position, and acted in an underhanded manner when he posted his call for votes a day or two before my informal poll ran out. Not exactly the behavior one would hope for from a would-be moderator. >I could support an *un*moderated t.r.p., but Tim Maroney brought up an >interesting point regarding factionalism. I think "pagan" is a broad enough >term to encompass a wide variety of magical traditions. What do others, >specifically Tim, think? > >(Don't bother quoting definitions at me. I have a dictionary at hand, and >I believe "pagan" is inclusive enough.) Sure, but words don't exist in a vacuum. The fact is that, like "New Age", "pagan" has been co-opted by a particular faction and so in pragmatic terms isn't considered inclusive; if you say you're a pagan, people in contact with the traditions will assume you're not a reader of Ken Wilber, or a Thelemite, or a Theosophist, or a Ramthaist, etc. If we're going to go strictly on dictionary definitions, then "Catholic" is the most inclusive term in the world and we should use it as a synonym for "eclectic". Now, maybe in another three years, the Church Enlightened and Esoteric will be formed and become tremendously popular and spoil the term "esoteric" for the rest of us, but for now, it or something like it would be the best bet. Unfortunately, the Neo-Pagans here obviously are never going to address the inclusiveness issues. They don't want inclusiveness -- they want exclusivity, which is ever so much more emotionally satisfying to a certain kind of person -- but they are unwilling to come right out and say so. Sorry if this seems a little harsh, but over the last three months I've gotten pretty damn sick and tired of having my points on inclusiveness completely ignored by that faction. -- Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com FROM THE FOOL FILE: "I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." -- George Bush in FREE INQUIRY magazine, Fall 1988