Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: bnr-vpa!bnr-fos!bmers58!davem@watmath.waterloo.edu (Dave Mielke) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Self-Serving Beliefs Message-ID: Date: 5 Feb 90 08:59:55 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ottawa, Canada Lines: 188 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article brandy@mimsy.umd.edu (Brandy R. Provine) writes: >Let me summarise with a few questions that will get at my points: > >1) What is your justification for claiming that another's beliefs are `self- > serving'? Although I do not believe that I have ever accused any specific person of having self-serving beliefs, I have most definitely made the completely accurate, general statement that the beliefs of many people are self-serving. I say this so confidently because God says this. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 says "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away {their} ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.". 2 Peter 2:1-3 says "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.". Isaiah 30:8-11 says "Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever: That this {is} a rebellious people, lying children, children {that} will not hear the law of the LORD: Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits: Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.". These passages are not just referring to those beliefs which do not feature the Lord Jesus Christ. They are also referring to many corporate churches which profess Christianity. 2 Corinthians 11:12-15 says "But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. For such {are} false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore {it is} no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.". 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 says "Let no man deceive you by any means: for {that day shall not come}, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.". Matthew 24:23-25 says "Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here {is} Christ, or there; believe {it} not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if {it were} possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before.". May each one of us thoroughly analyze his own beliefs to insure that he is not included among those to whom these passages apply. I especially make this admonition to those who are teachers as the Scriptures declare that an unforgiven teacher of lies is subject to greater damnation. James 3:1 says "My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.". Let none of us just glibly assume that, while others may be wrong, he himself cannot be deceived as he is among the elect. It may very well be that any one of us is not among the elect yet has been so completely deceived into believing that he is. Let us thank and praise God for having given us His written, inerrant, unchangeable Word so that we can verify whatever anyone else tells us and so that we can correct our own faulty, sin tainted thinking with the only relentlessly perfect source of absolute truth. >2) What is your justification for assuming that the perception you are overly > confident is a result of wanting to ignore you? My actual statement was a declaration that there are many people who claim that I believe that my personal interpretation of Scripture is flawless in an attempt to justify their desire to ignore what I am proclaiming. I thank you very much for having questioned me regarding this statement because I believe not only that it is extremely easy for others to misunderstand it but also that I was thinking out of context when I wrote it. I beg any Christian who was offended by this statement to please accept my sincere apologies. While this statement has a partial application even to Christians (including myself) as we are still living within sinful flesh which all too often causes us to err on the side of self-justification, it really only fully applies to non-Christians. An unsaved person, as a number of the Scriptures which I have quoted in my answer to your previous question illustrate, hears only what he wants to hear and willfully ignores what God is actually saying. I'm sure that we all realize that there are many non-Christians who subscribe to this newsgroup. Some of them even submit articles with their own theories of reality. A fact that may not be evident on the surface is that I am also addressing these people even when I am responding to a statement made by a Christian. I would ask that all Christians understand that I really only intend to challenge the beliefs of non-Christians by such statements. I would also ask that no one single person ever interpret any of my remarks as a direct personal attack as it has never been my intention to do so. As my use of these sorts of statements is apparently so widely misunderstood, I shall endeavour to minimize, if not entirely eliminate, them. If I really feel the need to make such a statement in the future, I shall endeavour to clarify my intentions regarding its use. If I fail in these endeavours then I not only would greatly appreciate your forgiveness but also would welcome any and all cautionary warnings from anyone. >3) Does it matter to you that it is Christians who are unhappy with your > articles? When all is said and done, I stand accountable to God, and not to my fellow man (even my fellow Christian brothers and sisters), for what I say, do, think, etc. I would be no less than a devout liar if I were to consider it acceptable to compromise what I believe the Scriptures say just because I know that someone else (even if he is Christian) will be offended. This does not mean that I discount what others say when it pertains to the interpretation of Scripture, but it does mean that I do not just swallow it because it appeals to my sinful senses. It is my duty before God to test each and every statement made by others as well as each and every one of my own thoughts by what God has said within the Scriptures. It is also my duty to refrain from making a public statement unless I am sure that it is truthful. The reason that I am so definite when I finally make a statement is because I only make statements on subjects about which I am sure. You will never see me make an indefinite statement because I refuse to arbitrarily comment or publically theorize about something which I am not sure of. I reserve those activities for private discussions where there is no danger that they will mislead anyone. I'm sure that you all realize that this newsgroup is the furthest thing from a private forum. Each of us really ought to be extremely careful about what he proclaims to be truth as it is being read by many unsaved people. I think it would be really neat if God were to use our comments to draw others to Himself. We can hardly expect Him to do this, however, if we are careless with the knowledge, wisdom, and even computing equipment which He has made available to us. May each one of us consistently and continually insure that each one of his comments is always made such that it brings glory to God! >4) Do you believe that people dislike your words only because you are telling > the truth? Do you not recognise that others may find your writing style > rather abrasive? Those who assess the truthfulness of what I say by my writing style are demonstrating profound foolishness. The only source of truth is the Bible itself. This is why I endeavour to include Scriptural support whenever I make statements pertaining to God. People should not base their beliefs on what I say; they should, rather, prayerfully study those Scriptures which I quote, perhaps using my remarks as an aid to their interpretation. If they do not check out those Scriptures then they either are over-confident or do not really believe that the Bible is the Word of God. If they ignore what I say just because they do not like my writing style then they are merely doing themselves a disservice. Please permit me to deal with one last point which was not included within your list of questions. You used an illustration that indicates that you misunderstood why I quoted Galatians 1:10. For the benefit of those without, or without easy access to, a Bible, it says "For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.". I, too, do not believe that I have made a truthful statement just because others find it unpleasant. The only criteria I use for the truthfulness of any given statement is its agreement with what the Scriptures say. Galatians 1:10, however, warns me that I should expect a great deal of opposition from my fellow man if I do not compromise the truth. It also warns me that I am probably wrong if I am only making statements which make everyone else happy. 1 John 4:1 says "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.". Dave Mielke, 613-726-0014 856 Grenon Avenue Ottawa, Ontario, Canada K2B 6G3