Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!husc6!m2c!wpi!bakken@cs.arizona.edu From: bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam Subject: Re: Biblical corruption - where is the evidence? Keywords: Islam, corruption, when?, where?, who?, manuscripts, archeology Message-ID: <7714@wpi.wpi.edu> Date: 5 Feb 90 20:30:53 GMT Sender: shari@wpi.wpi.edu Reply-To: bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) Lines: 69 Approved: sadeghi@oxy.edu In article <7588@wpi.wpi.edu> araja@m2.csc.ti.com (Ali Raja) writes: >In article <7364@wpi.wpi.edu> bakken@cs.arizona.edu (Dave Bakken) writes: >>[ I was talking about the Islamic tennent of Biblical corruption] >>I'm curious about this. I've heard Muslims say this, but they never >>seem to have any details (consider how slanderous and blasphemous >>they would consider it if someone had voiced similar questions as to >>the validity of the Qua'ran or Mohammed, even if details were provided). > >I think you have a fundamental misconception about Islam. If someone >voiced similar question about the validity of the Quran or of Mohammed >without anything to support his statements; then he would most likely >be simply ignored. If he provided details then these details would be >closely examined. All adherents to any particular religion claim that >their religion has been challenged and that the challenge was fruitless. I think we all can have misconceptions from time to time, and one of the really good things about the net is that it is a place where these misconceptions may be challenged and corrected. But in this particular case I don't think I have a misconception. While I can't claim direct statistical knowledge of how Muslims react to someone challenging Qur'anic validity, I do believe that in general Muslims definitely react more strongly than followers of other religions when someone insults or challenges their religion. The recent events that contrast this were the releases of "The Last Temptation of Christ" and "Satanic Verses". There were Muslims all over calling for the death of Rushdie. And not just uneducated peasants in a third world country. I was listening to a talk show here about the book and a Muslim woman called in and said that he should die (her english was pretty good, so I assume she had been exposed to western tolerance some, no matter where she originally came from). And I read that Yusuf Islam (aka Cat Stevens) also called for Rushdie's death from London (he has done some of my favorite songs, including "Morning Has Broken". His death call made me sad since his great sensitivity, as evidenced by his songs, didn't translate into tolernace). Contrast this with the "Last Temptation of Christ". I think it was at least as offensive to Christians as Rushdie's work was to Muslims (indeed, I think it was more offensive, at least much more lengthy and graphic, from what I've been told). Christians were calling for movie theaters not to show the movie as a matter of good taste, but few if any even questioned the right of the film to be produced. The director became a celebrity of sorts with the media and was on a lot of talk shows. Do you think Rushdie was invited to tell his side of the story in any Muslim countries (not that the US is a Christian country)? >So, at the risk of braggadocio, I'll ask you the same. Can you really >provide any details that show that the Quran is corrupted? It seems to >me that your own faith demands that this corruption exist. Can you >point out to us where this is? No, my faith doesn't demand this. I simply don't think that the Qur'an is the word of God. It may be completely devoid of any sort of corruption, but I don't think the original was from God. On the other side of the proverbial coin, however, I do think that Muslims have a problem when it comes to Biblical corruption (see my followup to your other posting; I was going to drop it but now I'll folllow up). The Old Testament gives specific prohpesies about Christ (see Psalm 22, for example - it describes the crucifiction in great detail. Verse 16 says "... they have pierced my hands and feet. This Psalm was dated ca. 1000BC, 800 years before the Romans introduced crucifiction into the area). And Jesus' claims to divinity have to be discounted by Biblical corruption, too. -- Dave Bakken Internet: bakken@cs.arizona.edu 721 Gould-Simpson Bldg UUCP: uunet!arizona!bakken Dept of Computer Science; U of Arizona Phone: +1 602 621 8372 (w) Tucson, AZ 85721 USA FAX: +1 602 621 4246