Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!umich!samsung!psuvax1!psuvm!auvm!CN!ALECK From: aleck@CN.ECN.PURDUE.EDU (Aleck Alexopoulos) Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas Subject: Gramma tou Kouvatsou sto SCT Message-ID: <9002071437.AA28272@cn.ecn.purdue.edu> Date: 7 Feb 90 14:37:08 GMT Sender: The Hellenic Discussion List Reply-To: The Hellenic Discussion List Lines: 125 Approved: NETNEWS@AUVM Gateway Akolou0ei to gramma tou Kouvatsou sto SCT. >> >> Article 1577 of soc.culture.turkish: >> Subject: setting the truth straight >> Date: 6 Feb 90 04:14:52 GMT >> >> Ladies and gentlemen, >> I have been watching the lively discussion on Greek-Turkish relations >> with interest for several days. I'd like to use this opportunity to >> set some things straight. First, a few facts: >> 1/ Several Greeks refer to the last remnants of the Greek population >> of Constantinople (Istanbul) as a "Christian" minority, to reciprocate >> for the Moslem minority of Western Thrace. This is an error. The Treaty >> of Lausanne specifically denotes a GREEK minority in Constantinople ( I >> use this name because that was used at the time and even the Turks use >> exclusively the name Istanbul in official papers only since the 1930s ) >> and a MOSLEM ( NOT Turkish ) minority in W. Thrace. The reason is that >> almost all Christians in Constantinople (Istanbul) were Greeks while >> only half the Moslems of W. Thrace were of Turkish origin. Nowadays, >> the moslem population of W. Thrace consists of 55000 of Turkish origin, >> 35000 Pomacs (non-Turkish slavic tribe) and about 15000 gypsies. They >> are all Greek - and European - citizens with all the rights and obli- >> gations this property implies, and if someone feels Turkish the door >> to mother Turkey is always open. >> 2/ On the question of the continental shelf, it is an established >> principle of the International Law of the Sea that islands DO HAVE >> continental shelf, whether Turkey likes it or not. As CK pointed out, >> Britain even got oil-rich shelf in the delineation with Norway because >> of the tiny Shetland Islands. Therefore Turkey has no rights whatsoever >> behind the line of the easternmost Greek islands. If Turkey believed >> it stood a chance, it would have settled for International Court juris- >> diction as Greece has done. Because Turkey knows that its position in >> the Aegean is unlawful, it is trying to bully Greece and to hell with >> the international law ( see CK postings for details on this subject ). >> 3/ As far as territorial waters are concerned, Greece has a perfect >> right, according to international law, to territorial waters of 12 >> miles and it should already have applied it. Turkey's stand to regard >> such an act of basic sovereignty rights (Turkey itself has 12 miles of >> territorial waters in its north and south coasts) as a "casus belli" >> is simply a part of its intimidation campaign. My personal opinion is >> that we should declare 12-mile territorial waters according to the law >> of the seas and call their bluff. This would not of course mean that >> the western Turkish coast would be cut off - there would be rights of >> passage such as in Dardanelles straights or the Gibraltar. >> 4/ On the question of the arming of the eastern Greek islands, please >> see CK's answer. I should only add that we got the Dodecanese from the >> Italians in 1947 and we have no obligation at all under the 1923 Lau- >> sanne treaty. >> It is really a very enlightening fact that the 1923 Lausanne treaty >> was imposed on us Greeks after a devastating military defeat (for which >> our supposed World War I allies - against Germany and Turkey - France >> and Italy played such a decisive role by massively helping the Turks >> and prohibiting a Greek blockade), and yet it is us Greeks who are >> defending this treaty against Turkish expansionism. It is true that >> Greece's Great Idea policy was expansionist before 1922 - but it is >> equally true that Turkey has been trying to bully Greece since then. >> I think that Michael Scordilis's quotations of Turkish officials >> that prove Turkish imperialism are quite to the point, and no Turk >> dared to answer him. What could they say? They only repeat hypocriti- >> cal declarations of friendship, and, as CK said, "it looks like we >> are offered abundance of friendship feelings on the condition that >> we see Turkey's interests as our own"... >> One particular Turkish person, Ms. Akkus, shows a characteristic >> attitude. Right after her shallow irony about Turks wanting all the >> olive trees of the Aegean and even the California olive groves, there >> come Michael's devastating quotes. Now she is hopelessly cornered and >> does not want to admit it. And the only thing she finds to say is, if >> the Turks want the Greek islands why don't they take them - would it >> be that hard?!? She seems an educated and intelligent person and she >> surely knows it would be very hard, that a Greek-Turkish war would be >> a particularly bloody affair and Turkey is not at all assured of win- >> ning. Nonetheless she makes that statement just in order to insult the >> Greeks who left her and her fellow Turks without arguments. Now that >> is the mentality of an Attila, not of a civilized westerner - while >> the same person later states Turkey's ambition to enter the EEC, that >> very western and very civilized community. To that, we Greeks would >> give the same answer we gave to some other Asian barbarians that >> claimed our land and sea 2500 years ago: "Molon lave" - come to get >> it - if you dare. >> On that particular subject, I'd like to say that Turkey will never, >> at least in the forseeable future, be admitted to the EEC. For a quite >> simple reason: It is NOT European, not so much in geography but in >> culture. If even Turkey can be admitted to the EEC, then why not Paki- >> stan! Let's be serious. The EEC is the community of European nations >> which share the values of the western civilization, forged in their >> national souls by the Renaissance and the Enlightenment. Turkey has >> nothing to do with this tradition of humanism and everything to do >> with the inhumanity of the Islamic world. It is true that due to the >> long Turkish occupation the Greeks were cut off from the development >> of the West. But we are the country where, spiritually, the West was >> born - we are the people that gave birth not just to science and phi- >> losophy but to the rational, free-thinking mind itself. We were the >> most civilized nation on Earth for 3000 years - from Mycenean times >> until the 15th century, and those who escaped the barbarians then >> arriving played a vital role in starting the Renaissance in Italy. >> As Reader's Digest, not a pro-Greek publication, stated (Jan.'88): >> "There is something special about Greece: It is very difficult to >> imagine our civilization without it". Of course, these past achie- >> vements are not an excuse for our current mediocrity - but they are >> ample evidence, if it were needed, that we are Western, while the >> Turks generally are not. >> The fact that I'm writing these lines does not mean that I hate >> Turks just for being Turkish. It would perhaps be interesting to say >> that I live with two Turkish roommates who are very nice guys and we >> are getting along pretty well. We I do hate is the spirit of the >> Attila - and to understand it, read for example the Spiegel article >> on northern Cyprus. Until Turks abandon their expansionist policies >> and turn their energies to developing their country, clashes are >> inevitable. >> We Greeks and Turks have one common interest - and just this one: >> to live as neighbors peacefully. We have no other common interests >> as some people say. But nations do not choose their neighbors and >> ever since the Turkish tribes moved from central Asia towards the >> ancient Greek lands 900-1000 years ago we have had to live as nei- >> ghbors. Let us make the most of this unhappy situation and live >> peacefully. As neighbors - but not together, since we have nothing >> in common. As Valery Giscard d' Estaing recently said, "the eastern >> border of Greece is the eastern border of Europe - beyond that, it >> is no Europe". >> >> Sincerely, >> Dimitris Kouvatsos (dk0a@lehigh.bitnet) >> >>