Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!umich!samsung!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!auvm!UKANVAX!TSATSOUL From: TSATSOUL%tisl@UKANVAX.BITNET Newsgroups: bit.listserv.hellas Subject: Kouvatsou synexeia Message-ID: Date: 9 Feb 90 15:43:00 GMT Sender: The Hellenic Discussion List Reply-To: The Hellenic Discussion List Lines: 128 Approved: NETNEWS@AUVM Gateway X-VMS-To: KUHUB::IN%"hellas@brownvm.bitnet" Re paidia, oxi kai na symfwnoume me ta grafomena tou Kouvatsou! Gia diabaste to gramma tou ksana kai peste mou ean o mywpikos swbinismos tou den sas tromazei. H' mhpws akoma pisteuetai auta pou sas ma0ane sto gymnasio, oti h Mama Ellas einai h phgh tou politismou, o faros olhs ths gnwshs kai texnhs; Diabaste: >.... Now that >is the mentality of an Attila, not of a civilized westerner - while Auto einai pou legetai sthn An0ropologia: "western-valued oriented racism" >the same person later states Turkey's ambition to enter the EEC, that >very western and very civilized community. Edw, kai se polla alla shmeia, ginetai to la0os ths eksiswshs ths EEC me politistikh enwsh, enw einai safws oikonomikh enwsh (kai se ligo isws politikh). H Ellhnikh koultoura einai toso diaforetikh apo, p.x., thn Germanikh, pou den exoume epixeirhmata otan milame gia "western culture". Kai pws sas fainetai to ".. very civilized ..". Dhladh oi Tourkoi den einai politismenoi, dioti den aspazontai tis aksies tou Dytikou politismou. Ara, kai oi Kinezoi, oi Arabes, oi Indoi, oi Tailandoi, ktl, einai apolitistoi! >...To that, we Greeks would >give the same answer we gave to some other Asian barbarians that Dhladh oi Tourkoi einai "Asian barbarians". > On that particular subject, I'd like to say that Turkey will never, >at least in the forseeable future, be admitted to the EEC. For a quite >simple reason: It is NOT European, not so much in geography but in >culture. If even Turkey can be admitted to the EEC, then why not Paki- >stan! Let's be serious. The EEC is the community of European nations >which share the values of the western civilization, Ksana ratsistikos, dytikos swbinismos. Ka0e mh dytikos politismos einai axrhstos. Syn to la0os oti h EEC einai politistikh organwsh. Oxi, ean oi xwres ths eurwphs eixan stenous oikonomikous desmous me to Pakistan, tote isws na ginotan ki auto melos. >... Turkey has >nothing to do with this tradition of humanism and everything to do >with the inhumanity of the Islamic world. A, poly wraia. Dhladh oloi oi Mwame0anoi einai "inhuman" !!! Osoi apo sas kseroun to Martillo, peste mou se ti diaferoun ta legomena tou Kouvatsou. Edw kai peripou 50 xronia ena oloklhro kratos prospa0hse na ekshghsei mia genoktonia dioti o ebraikos politismos htan mpla, mpla, mpla. O Kouvatsos kanei to idio: o Islamikos kosmos einai apan0rwpos kai den exei "the tradition of humanism" ths Dyshs (p.x. tis staurofories, thn iera eksetash, to Hitler, ta pogrom ths Ispanias kai Rwssias, ton ekatontaeth polemo, tous sklabous ths Elladas kai Rwmhs, ktl). >But we are the country where, spiritually, the West was >born - we are the people that gave birth not just to science and phi- >losophy but to the rational, free-thinking mind itself. We were the >most civilized nation on Earth for 3000 years - from Mycenean times >until the 15th century, and those who escaped the barbarians then >arriving played a vital role in starting the Renaissance in Italy. Auta einai propaganda ths 5hs dhmotikou. Ean h skepsh kai oi gnwseis mas exoun meinei s'auto to epipedo, tote h Ellhnikh paideia phge kata diaolou apo tote pou apofoithsa 8-) >As Reader's Digest, not a pro-Greek publication, stated (Jan.'88): Twra balame ta megala opla: READER'S DIGEST!! > The fact that I'm writing these lines does not mean that I hate >Turks just for being Turkish. But I hate them anyway for other things. >... It would perhaps be interesting to say >that I live with two Turkish roommates who are very nice guys and we >are getting along pretty well. "My best friends are black" > We Greeks and Turks have one common interest - and just this one: >to live as neighbors peacefully. We have no other common interests >as some people say. Profanws o Kouvatsos den exei proseksei oti meta apo 400 xronia anagkastikhs epafhs o Ellhnikos politismos kai koultoura einai diapotismenoi apo tourkikes, arabikes kai genika anatolikes epirroes. Apo to fai, th glwssa, th mousikh, ta e0ima, mexri kai th nootropia. Auto den einai "kako". Exoume ena uperoxo politismo kai prepei na xairomaste pou zoume se ena meigma apo dytikh kai anatolikh koultoura. >well as the turning of the Parthenon, that climax of the classical >civilization, to gunpowder storage room that resulted in its destru- >ction in the Turkish-Venetian war of 1629, those achievements will >certainly add up to a quite impressive list, indeed. Dhladh kathgoroume tous Tourkous gia pragmata pou ekanan prin 350 xronia! Tote 0a eprepe na anaferoume oti oi "filoi" mas Byzantinoi katesterepsan xiliades arxaia ellhnika mnhmeia kata thn diarkeia twn xristianikwn pogroms, kai oti o Par0enwnas eixe ginei ekklhsia. >Do you call me a bigot, lady, for pointing out the quite obvious >fact that the Turks of the 15th century were light years behind the >contemporary Greeks in cultural achievement? Then so is everyone >who states the equally obvious fact that 20th century, say, Swiss >are more civilized than contemporary, say, Angolans. This is, very >apparently, not racist, because it does not imply any innate superi- >ority but simply states that different peoples are at different stages >of cultural development at a particular time. Kai auto einai ratsistiko. Ypo0etei oti h koultoura einai grammikh apo "prwtogonous" se "politismenous", opou, fysika, politismenos einai o Dytiko-eurwpaios. Auth h "0ewria" einai proion twn apoikiakwn xronwn, mia kai oi apoikiakes dynameis eprepe na dikaiologhsoun thn katastofh twn topikwn politismwn: den tous katasterfoume, tous "ekpolitizoume", tous odhgoume sthn swsth koultoura. Kai dwse genoktonies kai dwstou "ekxristianismos", kai sxoleia pou ma0enane agglika, kai dwse rouxa (giati autoi oi protogonoi gyrnagane gymnoi!), kai dwse politistikh, h0ikh, kai, telika, olikh katastrofh twn ksenwn lawn. Loipo, oi Elbetoi einai "safws" pio politismenoi apo tous katoikous ths Angolas! Paliomauroi, akoma na ekpolitistoune! Auta gia twra. --- Kwstas Tsatsoulhs tsatsoul@volta.ece.ukans.edu