Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!umich!samsung!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!SEARN!ERIC
From: ERIC@SEARN.BITNET (Eric Thomas)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.nodmgt-l
Subject: Re: :routtab tableformat for NJEF
Message-ID: <NODMGT-L%90021001163918@DEARN>
Date: 9 Feb 90 13:25:37 GMT
Sender: Node Management Discussion <NODMGT-L@BITNIC>
Reply-To: Node Management Discussion <NODMGT-L@BITNIC>
Lines: 45
Approved: NETNEWS@PSUVM Gateway
In-Reply-To:  Your message of Thu, 8 Feb 90 14:03:02 PST

This is getting ridiculous.

>JES node numbers may be taken  from existing tags, but the OFFSET "O=nn"
>most certainly is local information.

I'm not  the one who  decided to put JES  node number offsets  in BITEARN
NODES, and I can certainly see problems stemming from this (eg node X had
O=40, installs  10 new  nodes, and it  takes 6 months  for the  update of
their node entry to take place  so they have to correct tables "manually"
for 6  months). However, this  is something which  has been in  place for
years, which has nonzero usefulness, and  it would therefore be stupid to
remove this support.

>How  about this  way: Let's  say that  software XYZ  needs bizarre  text
>strings, such as  "ROUTE" in front of the destination  node and neighbor
>node. And,  I can  determine this as  side effect of  the name  of their
>networking software. I should find it normal that BITEARN NODES does not
>carry this information,

How about this way: given a good  dictionary and a bit of imagination, it
is possible to translate simple  statements from, say, spanish to foreign
languages.  Therefore  in a  country  like  Switzerland where  there  are
significant amounts  of german-,  french- and italian-speaking  people, I
should find it normal that, for instance, train time-tables and touristic
information  be given  only  in  spanish; everybody  would  just buy  the
appropriate dictionary and  translate as necessary. As you  may know, VMS
and VM are the two most common  operating systems on BITNET; I have run a
quick  search on  BITEARN nodes  and found  1.8% of  NJEF sites.  You can
hardly compare the "value-for-effort" ratio of the two solutions.

>We now  treat :netsoft  as informational only.  This is  obviously local
>data, let's remove it.

Sorry Ed, but *I* definitely care  about what type of networking software
a site  is running. This  field is used  by the LISTSERV  'BITEARN NODES'
database formatter, and is useful  information FOR HUMAN BEINGS. The same
is true, by definition, of :remarkN.

Now I'm starting to get fed up  with this issue. Ed, I'm making an offer.
Send me a description of the format  of your routing tables and, if I can
find  a FORTRAN  compiler on  site, I'll  make you  a FORTRAN  program to
update it  as per a local  LID file. It  will probably take me  less time
than I needed to write this note.

  Eric