Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!mailrus!accuvax.nwu.edu!nucsrl!telecom-request From: karl@ddsw1.mcs.com (Karl Denninger) Newsgroups: comp.dcom.telecom Subject: Re: AT&T Behind Blocking of Japanese Business Phone Systems? Message-ID: <3803@accuvax.nwu.edu> Date: 12 Feb 90 05:26:49 GMT Sender: news@accuvax.nwu.edu Reply-To: Karl Denninger Organization: Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. - Mundelein, IL Lines: 138 Approved: Telecom@eecs.nwu.edu X-Submissions-To: telecom@eecs.nwu.edu X-Administrivia-To: telecom-request@eecs.nwu.edu X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 97, message 5 of 7 In article <3720@accuvax.nwu.edu> John Higdon writes: X-Telecom-Digest: Volume 10, Issue 90, message 1 of 9 >Karl Denninger writes: >> Who's behind this complaint? Is it AT&T? Does anyone know, factually, >> who started this nonsense? >You bet it's AT&T. This was in the news a few months ago. There was >quite a flame fest here in the Digest over it. Specifically, AT&T >claims that the Panasonic 308, 616, and 1232 systems are being dumped >here and asked for governmental relief, which was granted. They found >it quite difficult to sell their grossly overpriced Merlins against >those clever little hybrids. (I have a 1232 in my home -- it's great.) You're not kidding it's great. Even WITH the tarriffs, and the "relief", it's still the best system on the market for the money. Some items for the unknowing -- it works with standard phones (dial 9 to get outside access, other codes to do other things), so items like your standard fax machine work as an extension -- or with "custom" feature phones that have an alphanumeric display, key buttons, the works. It also is programmable from the "11" extension, individual stations have their own programming (which is both wild and pretty unique) -- with no hassles. You want auto-CO hunt? Dial a code on your extension -- you got it. You want forwarding, 4-zone paging (plus external), call pickup, executive override, music when your extension is idle, etc? Key a code, and it works. Toll restriction? It's in there (nice for an extension in your customer waiting area). Automatic night-line switching on time basis? It's in there. Call detail recording? Plug in a serial printer and turn it on. Every reasonable feature you could want is in there, ALL in the base unit. No extra costs -- full 6CO X 16Ext capability, music on hold, display phone features, "power failure" mode (so you don't end up with a completely dead system when the juice goes off), etc. If you want full functionality during power outages a $300 add-on box will provide that too -- for a full 4 hours. In fact, we haven't found a feature or item we >don't< like. And it worked right out of the box; use 4-wire RJ11 connections (2-wire for standard desk sets) and plug it in. The 1232 can even do the automated "call director" thing you hear with computerized voice announce and instructions at some companies -- on two channels! (This does require an extra module or two :-) And the 1232 is about half the cost of most "comparable" systems; same goes for the 616. The "proprietary" phones are nice and solid, have an excellent speakerphone (one of the very few speakerphones I consider usable), and are well-designed from a human-engineering point of view. Fantastic gear. Not a single complaint at our office. >The Panasonic systems were specifically designed and engineered for >the US telecom market and are sold nowhere else in the world. They are >not even sold in Japan. So how can they be dumping? If they are >selling below cost, why would they bother? No kidding. The idea that these systems could be dumped is laughable, given that they aren't sold anywhere else! I'd like to know how the Commerce Department came to that conclusion; did they use "cost of Merlin production" or some such to justify the tarriffs? Our Commerce Department would be funny if it wasn't for their playing patsy to American Industry and sinking it at the same time. >> Why can't American companies decide to compete by providing a better >> product and service, instead of slapping input duties on things..... >> it's beyond me. >Watch the Digest; I'm sure AT&T employees will come out of the >woodwork to tell us how the big bad Japanese are cheating against the >poor downtrodden AT&T. AT&T, or any other American Company, should be able to produce a superior product at a reasonable price. They haven't done so -- we looked at the Merlin systems, and the Southwestern Bell. The SWB system was cheesy, and nickled and dimed you to death (not to mention having a number of features you couldn't disable; cut off callers in 4 minutes on hold? Bah!). The Merlin was outrageously priced and had all these "options" (extra cost, of course). Siemens and Lanier? More of the same. Overpriced and unable to do things the Panasonic system can, at least at a reasonable cost. So, the 616 is not all digital (voice path is analog). BIG DEAL! It's a better mousetrap (just try to implement power-failure bypass in a full digital system). For AT&T (or anyone else out there with a full digital system) to complain that the hybrids are being "dumped" on that basis is way out of line -- the technology and construction aren't even the same! Ok, I can't pass raw data through it. But I CAN put a standard modem on any extension, or a fax, or an answering machine (nice for evening answering). All with no "extra costs". Plug and play is the name of the game, and play it does. We paid a good amount under $2,000 for our system with 4 proprietary extensions. We have connected at the moment those 4 plus 2 standard devices. It all works great; no complaints. The 308 (3 CO lines, 8 extension) system is quite a bit cheaper; it's inexpensive enough that it makes sense even in some homes! Folks, I remember when "Made in Japan" was synonymous with cheap junk. It wasn't very long ago. Now "Made in Japan" is a mark of quality; a highly respected mark indeed. It's "Made in the USA" that now gets the "trashy" label, and that really is too bad. "Protection" from imaginary evils, or from honest competition won't change this. Only the hard realities of the marketplace will -- if consumers refuse to deal with firms that engage in these practices. Americans have two choices. We can either allow this kind of crap to go on, and pander to the American companies, or we can say "build it better and cheaper or die as you deserve to". The choice is ours. The first option will lead to financial ruin for America in the end; remember, the European Common Market opens up in just a couple of years, and when it does it will dwarf us here! THOSE countries won't be terribly interested in our idea of protectionism, especially when it means that our market is effectively closed to their products. They'll retaliate, that is certain, and in the end we will lose. American industry must compete, not legislate, for in legislating we lose in the long term. We at MCS have spoken with our wallets, to the point that we're going to sell the Panasonic systems. We like it that much. If you want one call me; we'll be happy to take care of you. The American companies? Build a better, less expensive mousetrap. THEN we'll be interested. Legislating away your competition doesn't make us happy at all, and will only hurt all of us in the long run. Karl Denninger (karl@ddsw1.MCS.COM, !ddsw1!karl) Public Access Data Line: [+1 708 566-8911], Voice: [+1 708 566-8910] Macro Computer Solutions, Inc. "Quality Solutions at a Fair Price"