Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!mailrus!umich!gumby!obryan
From: obryan@gumby.cc.wmich.edu (Mark O'Bryan)
Subject: Re: Tape Drive Backup
Message-ID: <1990Feb12.015226.25152@gumby.cc.wmich.edu>
Summary: Check out the ICD unit before you leap...
Organization: Western Michigan University
References: <17425@laurel.athertn.Atherton.COM>
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 90 01:52:26 GMT

In article <17425@laurel.athertn.Atherton.COM> alex@Atherton.COM (Alex Leavens)
writes about a tape unit available from BMS:  While I appreciate his sharing
the info with the net, I honestly can't understand why anyone would choose
the option he describes over the ICD FA*ST Tape Backup unit.  I don't have
any axe to grind here, I'm just a little perplexed and thought an opposing
view should be aired.  Perhaps there are other advantages to the BMS unit
that I'm not aware of.

> It uses a standard size Un*x style cartridge 
> tape mechanism and tapes (unlike the ICD unit, which 
> uses a non-standard size) to allow you to backup/restore your 
> hard-disc partitions on a file-system basis 
> (there is no image backup yet).  

Unless you're planning on transporting data to/from Unix boxes via this
medium, I'm not sure what value this "standard" would have.  Perhaps the
intention is that the tapes are easier to find?

The ICD box allows both file-oriented and image backups, which comes in
handy for Spectre (and possibly Minix?) partitions.

> Tape cartridge prices run about 
> $15 each (less if you go to swap meets, where used Sun Microsystems tapes
> can be found for as little as $5).  

While most places will try to charge anywhere from $30 to $40 for the
CT-600N digital cassette tapes that the ICD box uses, I know of two places
(at least) they can be obtained for $19 a piece.  Since I don't know the
capacity of the BMS tapes, I'm not sure how the $15 compares to the $19
for 155 meg capacity.

> Disc to tape speed averages 
> about a meg a minute, which means that the average 10 meg partition 
> can be backed up (assuming it's completely full) in roughly 10 minutes.
> One nice thing is that the backup doesn't need to be monitored,
> so you can be off doing something else while your hard disc gets backed up.
> (Like sleeping...:-)

Hmmm, impressive.  The ICD unit runs 6-7 megs a minute, and also runs fully
unattended.  One disadvantage, of course, is that you only get to sleep
1/7-th as long ;-).

> Berkley MicroSystems will sell you a complete system (tape drive, controller,
> SCSI<->ASCI board, software) for $650.  However, they say that since the
> cost of the tape drives mechanisms is so cheap, you can probably do a 
> lot better by going out and buying a used tape drive yourself, and ...

The ICD box is $775 from Joppa Computers in Maryland, and I just ordered one
from MicroTyme in Ohio for $765.  Considering the capacity/performance of
the ICD box, I don't see the BMS as any savings.  I'm sticking a bare 100
meg SCSI hard drive inside the tape box, which saves me buying a box, power
supply, and host adapter.  Can you do this with the BMS unit?

[MicroTyme advertises the ICD for $799.  I pointed out that my brother has
bought over $1,000 worth of games from them, and asked if they could match
Joppa's price.  They beat it.  I don't know if they would do this for any-
body who asked, or if I got special treatment.  They seem to be pretty nice
folks though.]

> One caveat--you will need some technical expertise in order to put
> this system together.  While SCSI stuff is pretty much plug and play
> these days, there is still a certain level of knowledge needed in order
> to prevent yourself from frying expensive components.  (This is not
> a 'take it out of the box and run it' type system, you will have
> to get your hands dirty and assemble it.)  Given that 
> caution, if you're in the market for an inexpensive tape backup,

If your time is worth nothing, or you just enjoy doing it yourself, this
may be a worthwhile option.  Otherwise, I just don't see it.  People seem
to think the ICD box is awfully expensive (I know I did), but if you check
out boxes on the Mac using the same streaming tape drive you'll find they
run $1,000 to $1,700.  That makes the ICD look almost cheap.  When you
consider that it has to have a host adapter (Atari DMA-SCSI), plus can hold
a hard drive, and sells for $775, it's a steal.

If you really want to roll your own, the bare TEAC tape drives can be found
for ~$400.  Add $100 for a host adapter, $100 for a box/power supply, plus
a little extra for miscellaneous cables and mounting hardware.  You saved
maybe $160 for your efforts.  Now sit down and start writing the backup
software.  Doesn't seem like much of a savings to me.  (I considered that
option and rejected it.  I might have come to a different conclusion if I
was going to, say, stuff a whole stack of peripherals in a tower case.)

[The above has been a public service announcement.  It's replete with my
own personal opinions.  Your mileage may vary.  Do not exceed recommended
doses.  Void where prohibited by law.]

-- 
Mark T. O'Bryan                 Internet:  obryan@gumby.cc.wmich.edu
Western Michigan University
Kalamazoo, MI  49008