Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: bob@morningstar.com (Bob Sutterfield) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Alchohol: Good or Evil? Message-ID: Date: 9 Feb 90 07:23:07 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Organization: Morning Star Technologies Lines: 75 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu In article dragon!cms@gatech.edu writes: At any rate, it seems obvious that Christ did drink wine and did not regard it as sinful in and of itself. Agreed. I see no condemnation of alcohol, except to excess. I respect your right to drink grape juice and I sincerely hope you'll show me the same courtesy by respecting my right to drink wine. Agreed. Besides, it isn't either wine or grapejuice anyway: It's the Blood of Christ. ...or, for non-Catholics, a facsimile thereof. I know some Protestants serve grape juice, but not all. Do you happen to know which Protestants Churches subscribe to your interpretation? Some denominations insist upon grape juice (Baptists come to mind), others insist upon wine (some Lutherans), others (as far as I can tell) leave it up to individual congregations. Our fellowship, a collection of several dozen house churches, leaves the decision to the individual house churches. Different ones are planted in different subcultures around the city, and need to adopt different strategies for their particular situations. Our particular house church? We pass around a few glasses of a nice Burgundy, along with several pieces of pita bread. Very casual, lots of shared prayer and good fellowship. Wine is known to remove a lot of our resistance to the various temptations that sin offers. No one of us had better dare believe that he is immune to its mind numbing and sin uninhibiting effects. Right. Each of us is responsible for maintaining his own vessel as a good steward, which includes knowing when to say "enough." Why should I voluntarily engage in an activity which I know to be dangerous, which the Scriptures do not command, and which the Scriptures in fact warn against. The Scriptures do command cultural relevance (in the world but not of it). In some cultures (e.g. modern USA) alcohol is accepted. I have done some useful evangelism and post-evangelism in (gasp) bars! Some of the people I encounter are most comfortable talking over a beer. In fact, the fact that I drink a beer with them often graphically demonstrates, emphasizes, and begins a discussion on God's non-exclusive grace. I can point out that God is more concerned with man's heart than with outward action. Blanket prohibition of alcohol focuses on externals, but responsible, moderate consumption can be culturally relevant and useful. In fact, just last night, the men in my small-group Bible study took me out and treated me to some very nice beer in celebration of the announcement that my wife is pregnant with our first child. It was a wonderful time of fellowship, and I treasure their support. That's the culture we live in, and that's how we express it for each other. At any rate, I maintain that wine is just as often held at a premium in the Bible... Sirach 39:26... Ben Sira 40:20... Sorry, I can't find those references in my Bible :-) Seriously, which non-Christian groups view Christians as "doing something imperfect" when consuming alchohol even in the Eucharist? Missionaries in Muslim areas are strongly cautioned against drinking alcohol. Though rank-and-file Muslims often drink (sometimes heavily), the missionary in their culture is taking the position of an imam - a `holy man.' Behavior that is considered inappropriate for Muslim holy men must be avoided. It's all a matter of culture and strategy. I drink here, I won't drink there. No big deal.