Xref: utzoo rec.music.synth:11644 rec.music.makers:7048 misc.consumers:17536 comp.music:822
Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!mtxinu!rtech!dark!rca
From: rca@dark.rtech.COM (Bob Arnold)
Newsgroups: rec.music.synth,rec.music.makers,misc.consumers,comp.music
Subject: Re: Bad Vibes from Schroders Keyboard City
Message-ID: <4853@rtech.rtech.com>
Date: 26 Feb 90 08:56:21 GMT
References: <48c8010c.13778@pieta.UUCP> <2450@se-sd.NCR.COM>
Sender: news@rtech.rtech.com
Reply-To: rca@dark.UUCP (Bob Arnold)
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In article <2450@se-sd.NCR.COM> lowery@se-sd.SanDiego.NCR.COM (Tim Lowery) writes:
>[ Description of bad experience with music store in Phoenix deleted. ]
>
>I wanted to add that another thing that bugs me about many musical instrument
>dealers is that they refuse to give you a straight answer on the price they
>will sell merchandise.  You ask them for a price, and all they'll give you
>is list.  They insist on playing games with you, trying to see how much
>they can get out of you (shades of used car salesmen).  I realize that
>these guys have to make a profit, but why can't they just quote me their
>best price in the beginning rather than making me propose a price and telling
>me that my proposal is too low?  If I ever find another salesperson who
>will play straight with me and quote me the best price in the beginning, I'll
>stick with his store (even if they charge me a little more than somebody
>else's lowest price).  It's just not worth the extra $50 to $100 dollars I'd
>save to subject myself to the hassle of bargaining with the salesman.
>
>I'd be interested in hearing other people's feelings about this.

Fortunately I've got four stores in my area that will give me the
straight story - 5th String, Subway Guitars, Lundberg's Stringed
Instruments, and Music Works.  Unlike most music stores, 5S and MW
both tag everything with the real price, a practice I seek out.

Unfortunately, I've had to deal with the typical music store sales types
too.  I have two basic strategies for *new* equipment.

1) Shop at multiple stores, and tell them all that I will buy from the
*first* person to give me a good deal.  I won't take a good price and
shop it around to see if somebody can shave two dollars off it.

I do tell salesfolks that I'm shopping around, but I won't tell one
store another store's price quote.  I try to keep it clear and simple -
"I don't want to haggle - just give me your best deal up front and if
it's a good deal you'll get my business."  If they really won't give
me a good deal, I leave.

2) Ask list price, subtract 30%, and refuse to pay any more than that.
(Sales tax is on top of that price.)  When I'm trying to choose
between various brands and models, I only ask list price.  After I
make up my mind, I'll frequently say something like "I assume I can get
(whatever) for 30% off."

25% to 30% off is a reasonably fair discount for most major purchases.

Little things like strings and cords should be available for 50% off.
Subway Guitars sells guitar strings for $1.50 per set.  Singles are
25cents for unwound, 50cents for wound.  This is an extremely good
deal, but most music shops have frequent sales at 2 for the price of
one.  One store used to always sell strings at 3 sets for the price of
one (a 67% discount), and the owner was still making a profit on them
(they haven't done this since they changed management).

About 1) and 2) I do this all in a friendly, matter of fact manner.  
If you're arrogant and demanding, you probably won't get a good deal
(and you won't deserve one either).

Used gear is harder because it doesn't have a list price.  But with
some research you can find out what fair market value is for commonly
available gear.  Then you simply have to have the patience to hunt
for a seller willing to sell to you at that price.

About bargaining in general:
1) You want to avoid it.
2) The first person to quote actual dollar amounts is the loser.
3) The buyer is the loser because they don't the rock-bottom price that
the store will settle for.


  __    _    _   Bob Arnold		Ingres Corp.
|/  \  / \  / \| 			1080 Marina Village Parkway
|     /    /   |			Alameda, CA, 94501
|     \__/ \__/| rca@rtech.com		415/748-2819