Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!purdue!sage.cc.purdue.edu!aj0
From: aj0@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Eric Mulholland)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple
Subject: Re: file system questions
Message-ID: <3692@sage.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 25 Feb 90 21:27:45 GMT
References: <1557@crash.cts.com> <38736@apple.Apple.COM> <3637@sage.cc.purdue.edu> <38762@apple.Apple.COM>
Reply-To: aj0@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Eric Mulholland)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Purdue University
Lines: 97

>In article aj0@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Eric Mulholland) writes:
>>    GS/OS on the other hand is a complete rewrite and thus CAPIBLE of
>>larger volume sizes.  Take a closer look at GS/OS and see that it uses

    The point of my article is what SIZE volumnes I can currently use
in gs/os.  Yes gs/os can handle very large volumes, but with system 5.0.2,
with all that comes with it, you cannot use a very large drive.  (speaking
about a local hard drive here)
    Don't get me wrong, gs/os is a great operating system, makes prodos 8
look like a homework assignment.  Here I'm only looking at the aspect of
volume size.

In article <38762@apple.Apple.COM> mattd@Apple.COM (Matt Deatherage) writes:
>Dave has already addressed some of this, but to repeat, drivers talk to the
>hardware, FSTs talk to the drivers, GS/OS talks to the FSTs, applications talk
>to GS/OS.

    True.  My errors there have been pointed out.

>Again, an application makes GS/OS calls, not "ProDOS FST calls" (with some very
>minor FST-specific exceptions).  The ProDOS FST allows GS/OS to use ProDOS
>disks.  The FST has all the limitations of the native (in this case, ProDOS)

    I don't think I mentioned anywhere of trying to make direct calls to
the fst.  Even making calls to gs/os, I'm not going to get a 100meg file
on a directly connected hard drive with the current system software.

>ProDOS's file system has fortunately always supported storage types, so other
>programs or operating systems (Pascal, GS/OS) can create files on ProDOS disks
>that ProDOS 8 won't try to mess with.  That's how Pascal Volumes and Extended
>Files can fit on those disks without ProDOS 8's knowledge.  Changing the whole
>disk so ProDOS 8 can't use it is an entirely different matter.

    Like I was saying, adding more to the definition of prodos disks,
or should say changing reserved values into known values.  Nothing wrong
there.  A prodos disk bigger than 32meg is not a prodos disk.  That's
my point in that the prodos fst cannot be used for making a huge volume.

>>    There's a Sierra-Online FST.  This allows those who have expensive
>>CD drives to READ CDs.  If and when CDs become writeable, this FST will
>>not allow you to take advantage of that since the FST is READ ONLY.

>There's a "High Sierra" FST; Sierra On-line has nothing to do with this
>international standard for CD-ROM disks which was created at a conference at
>the High Sierra resort in Nevada.  The FST doesn't support writing because
>CD-ROM is currently not a writeable technology.  If this changes, the FST
>can change.  That's why it's not in ROM.

    I'm embarresed I called that fst by the wrong name.  I don't know if
CD drives can be hooked up to a scsi card or uses a different interface.
This is showing how little I know about the details of scsi and of cd disk
format.  So it is probibly inposible to trick gs/os into thinking a hard drive
is just a small, slow cd.

>You would be incorrect.  Schools were crying for AppleShare access under GS/OS
>ever since GS/OS was released.  We listened, we created.  As Dave says,
>AppleShare (it's not an "AppleTalk FST"; AppleTalk is not a file system) is a
>complete networking solution, not a method for individual people to use larger
>hard drives (although it does work for that as well).

    I haven't seen satistics, so, what percentage of Apple //gs owners
are schools?  I don't think many private (non-school) owners are hooked
up to a network.  Now that schools got their appleshare fst, may we home
users get a super size hard drive fst?

>>    There is also a Character FST.  I don't know about you, but I don't
>>see any acceptible way of storing/retrieving files from there.

>The Character FST is essential to the I/O model of GS/OS.  It's not SUPPOSED
>to be a way to access a file system; it deals with the character side of the
>I/O model (other FSTs deal with the block side).

    I included it mainly for completeness.  I never expected an answer
different then the above one.

>>    So Matt, you say ProDOS 16 and GS/OS were written to get around the
>>limitations of ProDOS 8?  The only storage capicaty limit that I see as
>>being removed is the number of volumes per slot.  With the size of hard

>(long list of advantages of gs/os over prodos 8)

>What you want is a newer FST (like HFS) to address the file system problems
>associated with ProDOS.  No one is arguing against that.  What I was saying is
>that ProDOS 8 (the 8-bit disk operating system) isn't going to deal with
>volumes greater than 32 MB.  That stands.

    The way prodos 8 is defined, it cannot be extended.  This is why I'd
like to see a new fst to make use of super size hard drives.  If I want
to store prodos 8 and gs/os programs on the same disk, that's what the
prodos fst is for.  I just don't want to be limit to it!
    No one is arguing against another fst, we just don't see it.

-- 
     ____
 Y_,_|[]|   Eric Mulholland
{|_|_|__|   aj0@sage.cc.purdue.edu
//oo--OO    ...!pur-ee!sage.cc!aj0