Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jpl-devvax!david
From: david@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (David E. Smyth)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: XView v. other toolkits, advice wanted
Message-ID: <7150@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV>
Date: 23 Feb 90 15:05:58 GMT
References: <22697@mimsy.umd.edu>
Reply-To: david@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (David E. Smyth)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Lines: 65

In article <22697@mimsy.umd.edu> folta@tove.umd.edu (Wayne Folta) writes:
>At work, we have to make a decision as to which way to go: move our Sun 3 SunView
>operations to xnews and XView, or move to X11R4 and use other toolkits.

Ask your users: ours voted unanimously for Motif.  Motif has Windows/PM look
and feel.  We have 10000 PCs and 500 Suns.  Virtually none of the Suns have
open look (they either use SunView or Motif), and MANY of the PCs have Windows.

The user response wasn't PURELY based on technical merit.  It also based
on familiarity, and on Motif's beautiful presentation.

But so what?  Do you buy a car with the steering wheel on the left or
on the right?  You buy whichever is more familiar.  When choosing between
two otherwise acceptable cars, would you buy an ugly one or a nice looking
one?

>Questions:
> 1. Is it really advantageous to stay with Sun on the move to X or is MIT's X11R4
>    generic tape a viable option?  (e.g. is the fact that Open Windows is supported
>    by Sun a big advantage over the more generic X11R4?)

It is VERY advantageous to move to X11R4 because it is the state of the art.  It
is also ALOT faster that xnews.  It is also more generic: its ALOT easier to move
your environment between X11R4 on a Sun to a DECstation or to a HP or to a ...

> 2. Do most toolkits (other than XView) allow mixing and matching among themselves
>    are they mostly exclusive?  (I am thinking particularly of Xcu.)

Yes.  It is suprisingly easy to mix widgets from various widget sets.  However,
then you end up with a mixed look-and-feel, which is not always nice.

> 3. Do most toolkits (other than XView) have an object-orientation with
>    inheritence?

Yes.  We have even proven that it is realtively easy for people to write new
widgets which are derived from the Motif widget set.  In my group there are
three people who are developing widgets derived from Motif widgets.  We do not
have source.  It is taking about 1.5 weeks clock time (maybe 30-40 hours actually
programming) to implement the FIRST widget, even if the programmer is a
student with NO Xt or X experience!

> 4. Will a mixture (Sun's server, other people's X11R4 toolkits) be possible now
>    or in the near future?

It does not work very well.  For example, xnews uses the R2 font mechanism.  
I don't know why you'd use OpenWindows [sic] anyway.  Its extremely
bogus.

Why? Much of the server is implemented in Postscript (Sun tries to deny this,
but when it crashes you get postscript stack dumps even if it is in X only
mode).  NeWS implements all the light weight processes in one address space.
Postscript has no compiler: bugs like argument confusion only get caught when
executed.  Postscript clients download, hit the bug, AND THE ENTIRE SERVER
CRASHES not just the client!  Talk about a poor technical approach.

Postscript it a Page Description Language, not a general purpose programming
language!  Use C for logic and control (like in a server or a client) and use
postscript if you need fancy page layouts.

----------------------------------------------------------
David Smyth                david@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov
Senior Software Engineer,  seismo!cit-vax!jpl-devvax!david
X and Object Guru.         (818)364-6344
JPL, M/S 301-260, 4800 Oak Grove Drive, Pasadena, CA 91109
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