Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!hoptoad!tim
From: tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.hypercard
Subject: Re: Setting userLevel at openStack time & flame
Message-ID: <10580@hoptoad.uucp>
Date: 5 Mar 90 00:45:26 GMT
References: <48201@cc.utah.edu>
Reply-To: tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney)
Organization: Eclectic Software, San Francisco
Lines: 82

In article <48201@cc.utah.edu> KOFOID@cc.utah.edu writes:
>Tom Johnson writes: 
>
>>Here's the scenario: [...] I decide to set the userLevel to 2 at openStack
>>time. [etc...He wants to protect the stack from change by naive students.]
>
>    ...and of course got a typically snotty answer from an Apple rep, who never
>bothered to tell him how to do what he wants to do.

Give me a break.  Jeanne Devoto is about the farthest thing from a
"snotty Apple rep" imaginable.  (And believe me, I've dealt with snotty
ones -- even snively ones.)  She consistently comes forward with
strong, clear answers to people's questions here, using her own time,
and is generally both polite and cheerful.

Her message to Tom Johnson was legitimate; if someone asks "How do I
fill my ears with gunpowder", "I would advise you not to try" is a
perfectly good response.  She did not attack him personally in any
way for asking the question, merely set forth her problems with the
idea of locking stacks against users.  I wish the same could be said
for your message, which is full of gratuitous personal attack.

>>>>> FLAME ON

You clearly intended this for the beginning of your message; how'd it
slip to the middle?

>    I get supremely pissed when people chide others in public for not treating
>HyperCard stacks like a holy relics, whose guts are to be accessible to all. I
>enjoy the openness of the HyperCard community and like to share my code.
>However, if people wish to treat HC as a development system, hiding the inner
>workings of a stack, I see no problem. As far as I'm concerned, it's absolutely
>the same as writing a program and distributing the binary file, for whatever
>reason. 

The "holy relic" view is in the mind of the programmers who consider
their software too ineffable to allow the masses to even gaze upon its
face, lest they be blinded and struck deaf by its magnificence.  It is
certainly not in the minds of those who wish to see more software made
open to the public.

>    When did you last see Apple post the source code for its ROMs, the Finder,
>MacWrite, MacPaint, etc., etc.? Until they do so, I'd prefer that they or their
>representatives answer users' questions with a minimum of sarcasm. Embarrassing
>some poor soul because he or she isn't quite as clever as a professional
>programmer isn't the point of this newsgroup.

Now *you* are attacking Tom Johnson personally just as you have Ms.
Devoto.  I see no indication that Mr. Johnson is not as clever as a
professional programmer, and neither did Ms. Devoto.  We just happen
to disagree with his intent of locking users out of their own stacks.

One of the nicest things about HyperCard stacks, as opposed to binary
software, is that if there's some little thing in the program that
drives you nbuts, you can change it with a minimum of fuss.  I've done
this with the stack I use most often, the Technical Notes Stack from
Apple, and I expect my users to do so with the stacks I'm developing.
Even if behavior depends on an XCMD, source code for which is usually
not distributed, XCMDs are small and replaceable; you may not be able
to easily modify the default XCMD, but you can write your own and paste
it into the stack with ResEdit.  Taking this "softer software" out of
HyperCard is removing one of the system's main strengths.

>    Possibly, the employee doesn't really represent her company when she writes
>(then, why identify the company?). Unfortunately, I've found this attitude all
>too typical whenever one needs technical help from Apple and does not happen to
>be a large, multinational, for-megaprofit corporation. Her approach is
>irritating, regardless, for the reasons stated.
>
>>>>> FLAME OFF

What a load.  Devoto is probably the single most helpful person in this
newsgroup, so you blast her for a single message which explains why you
shouldn't do something rather than how to do it?  Grow up!
-- 
Tim Maroney, Mac Software Consultant, sun!hoptoad!tim, tim@toad.com

"The pride of the peacock is the glory of God.
 The lust of the goat is the bounty of God.
 The wrath of the lion is the wisdom of God.
 The nakedness of woman is the work of God."
    - Blake, "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell"