Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wuarchive!texbell!texsun!newstop!sun!kimba!hvr
From: hvr@kimba.Sun.COM (Heather Rose)
Newsgroups: comp.windows.x
Subject: Re: XView application without olcursor?
Message-ID: <132607@sun.Eng.Sun.COM>
Date: 7 Mar 90 02:19:58 GMT
References: <5452@crdgw1.crd.ge.com> <132555@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> <5818@crdgw1.crd.ge.com>
Sender: news@sun.Eng.Sun.COM
Reply-To: hvr@sun.UUCP (Heather Rose)
Organization: Sun Microsystems, Mountain View
Lines: 87

In article <5818@crdgw1.crd.ge.com> barnett@grymoire.crd.ge.com (Bruce Barnett) writes:
>In article <132555@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> hvr@sun.UUCP (Heather Rose) writes:
>
>|>However, when I run this application on an
>|>X terminal without the OpenLook cursor "olcursor" installed, the program
>|>terminates with an error.
>|
>|xset [-display display] +fp $XVIEWHOME/lib/X11/fonts/xview/misc
>|
>|does not add the open look fonts to your X11 server?  All X11R4 compatible
>|servers should have these loaded in the default locations...
>
>We have several different types of X terminals. There are several
>different ways to download the fonts. Also - some fonts have to be
>built to match the architecture, and installed by the system manager.

All the X11 servers do not use the standard utility bdftosnf to
compile the font files?  The XView source includes rules for compiling
the fonts for X11R3 based servers.  The X11R4 based servers should already
have these fonts compiled in.  Once the fonts have been installed, it is
just a matter of adding them with "xset +fp ..." or use "xset rehash" if they
are installed in the same directory as the other fonts.

I suppose the whole fonts issue will become simplified when the font server
concept is finalized, implemented, and adopted...

>In another case, I had to FTP the fonts to a Macintosh and run a Mac
>program  before I could run the XView application. This is not
>something I expect end users to know how to do.
>
>The point is - OpenLook fonts are currently non-standard.
>The mechanism needed to download the fonts are non-standard.

How so?  We provide them in the same format as any other X11 supplied font.
We provide the same rules for compiling them as any other X11 font.  We also
add the font to the font database in the same way as any other X11 font.

I do not understand how bdftosnf and xset can be considered non-standard...

>If I write an OpenLook application that will run in a heterogeneous
>environment, I cannot say it will run on any X terminal or server.
>The system administrator or principle user must do something special
>before they can run the OL application.

>I no longer have a simple X program that can be used by anyone
>with a simple server. I have to teach secretaries, corporate managers,
>system managers etc. the commands needed to download the fonts.
>Each product might require a new procedure.

>Fonts aren't really the problem. I can specify "standard" fonts.
>
>The problem is "olglyth" and "olcursor". These "fonts" are hardwired
>into the application. I would like to have a means that
>	a) detects if "olglyth" and "olcursor" are available.
>	b) if not, then do something in my program that will
>	   allow the program to be useful, but with limited functionality.
>
>	I could decide not to use a scrollbar, if olcursor were not
>	available. Or use a server image, if I knew how.
>
>I can do step a. But it might be a useful extension to XView
>if I can either provide the fonts from the client side, or
>download the fonts into the server.

OK.  Perhaps what you mean by "non-standard" is that X11 servers that came
out before X11R4 do not download the OpenLook fonts by default?  That you
need to run bdftosnf or xset at all...

This is a valid request for change--if the toolkit cannot find the OpenLook
fonts, it loads in bitmap data and uses that instead.  The only problem
we would have with this is increasing the library size. But perhaps we could
read in the files at run time if needed.  But then there's the problem again
needing some extra files to run a program.

The advantage of using a font over bitmaps is that many XView applications
can share the same OpenLook glyph images---by using the same font.  When
using bitmaps, you either have to download the bitmap over the wire each
time you draw (cheap on the server) or allocate server side bitmaps for
each application (cheap on the wire and potentially disatrous for the server). 

Is there a way to allocate server pixmaps as sharable objects?  i.e. one
client allocates a pixmap as "read-only" so other clients could use it.
That would make the problem much easier to solve.

Regards,

Heather