Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wuarchive!psuvax1!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!athos.rutgers.edu!christian From: st0o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Steven Timm) Newsgroups: soc.religion.christian Subject: Re: Wine... Message-ID: Date: 1 Mar 90 07:50:41 GMT Sender: hedrick@athos.rutgers.edu Lines: 52 Approved: christian@aramis.rutgers.edu This is in response to a post on internet.christia by PDBROYLE, but is also appropriate to the current discussion thread on netnews.soc.religion.christian. >Which makes me think. Could it be that fermenting process was only known >about since, as you say, the 1600's, but that wine before that day could >be either fermented or unfermented? Could it be that nobody knew why some >wine was gave you a high while another did not? Could it be that, both >people are right when they speak of anceint wine? IE, Wine was what we >understand to be grapejuice, but that sometimes it fermented into what we >know to be wine? Just a thought? I think it is safe to say that people knew the difference from antiquity. The Old Testament Hebrew has two different words both translated as "wine" in the KJV and most other versions. One refers to unfermented grape juice and the other to fermented wine. Fermented wine has been known at least since the days of Noah, whom we read in Genesis was drunk. It is this word used in the Old Testament in such verses as "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging" "It is not for kings to drink wine" On the other hand, when wine is praised as that "which gladdeneth both God and man." the word for unfermented grape juice is used. The strongest objection to this theory is that it is commonly assumed that it was impossible to preserve grape juice in Biblical times. I give three short arguments here as to its feasibility. (a) Grapes were in season at various times during the year, and the juice could be prepared fresh as needed (and often was) (b) Sources indicate that the freshly-squeezed must was often boiled down and stored for months at a time without fermentation,. Grape juice could also be and was preserved by sealing with various sealants or by immersion in underground springs. (c) The same difficulties which plagued grape juice storage would also plague the storage of wine . In fact, it was not until the 1800s that Pasteur did his study on why some grape juice underwent alcoholic fermentation and other juice underwent the undesirable lactic acid fermentation. Most of this information comes from the book Wine in the Bible, by Dr. Samuele Bacchiocchi. I'm in the process of reading it and plan soon to post another synopsis of wine in the New Testament (where the situation is not so linguistically or practically clear.)