Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!mailrus!accuvax.nwu.edu!nyevax!steve
From: nyevax!steve@CAS.ORST.EDU (Steve Dodd)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Taq'ia
Message-ID: <4553@accuvax.nwu.edu>
Date: 1 Mar 90 10:49:15 GMT
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Approved: naim@eecs.nwu.edu (Naim Abdullah)


>From: abbas@sunb4.cs.uiuc.edu

>You really know how to find those keywords which create the difference
>between the both sect of Muslims, I guess next you will open the subject
>of marriage difference, right?

Are there marriage differences too?  Well maybe next week we can look
at that.

>Taq'ia definition is: to claim that you are not from a certain sect or
>			religion, or deny something to protect yourself
>			against certainc unsjustice or racism.

>The word usually get connect with Shi'a since after the death of the prophet,
>some people of Sunna sect claimed that Shi'a were not muslims and they should
>be executed.  So the Shi'a to avoid been executed (like what happen to Imam
>Hussein, the son of the Prophet coursin Imam Ali, because he disagreed with
>a leader of the Sunna sect), claimed that they were not Shi'a or even muslim.
>The Sunna sect does not agree with Shi'a, and considered haram.  If it wasn't
>for Taq'ia the sect of Shi'a may have completely executed.

>PS:  In the above note, I am only talking about some people of the Sunna sect.
>     It should not be considered an attack on the Sunna sect in general.  Many
>     Sunna did not agree with what going on in that period of time.

Assalam Alaykum,

Perhaps I'd better expalin some things to you about my questions of those
who call themselves Shia.  When I first began to study Islam in 1976 there
was very little English material available.  I was at UBC in Vancouver
and there I discovered dozens of books on the shia and sufis.  There was
no Qur'an.  I drove up and down the freeway for months looking for more
literature before discovering a Qur'an and Riyad As-Saliheen at the
Vancouver public library.  Till then most of my reading about Islam was
related to shia imams, taqiyya and all that.  However, when I started reading
the Qur'an I could find no refrence to any of it.  I would therefore challenge
your assertion that I was looking for differences between Muslims.  I worked
very hard for many years to learn anything at all.  I have certainly endured
a lot of difficulty over the shia without even being able to figure out what
they want.  All of this discussion now only provides a forum for me to
examine some of the oldest questions I have about Islam.

Later the revolution in Iran began and I got a book from a retail store
by Khomeini.  I read this several times without being able to figure
out what he was talking about in regard to the religion.  The politics
and his intrest in humanitarian concerns for his people was all I could
make out of it.  All this stuff left me very confused and troubled for several
years.  Later I read some literature identifying taqiyya as a tennant
of shia belief.  Bluntly put it is permissible or even required for
a shia muslim to outright lie about his beliefs in order to mislead
people.  Do you wonder that I became confused?  Lots of other new Muslims
are confused as well.  How am I to reconcile this with the Islam I
find in the Qur'an?  In addition I have been personally accosted at
our local Islamic Center by pamphlet pushing shia who are actively
trying to cause problems with any one who'll listen to them.  Why
should I care about their strange beliefs when Islam is so clearly
outlined in the Qur'an and sunna?

Lately I have been reading a book called the Muslim Scolars Fatwa
Concerning Khomeini.  It outlines the reasons the shia are not well
recieved by most muslim scholars.  The Shia attribute titles to
their leaders which exceed the limits of Islamic thinking.  These
leaders claim for themselves special powers.  When I ask some
shia here about this they practice taqiyya, or shall I say they
just lie about it.  Later others of them admit this.

There are no sects in Islam.  There never was and never will be.  Islam
is something you do not something you are.  Anyone identifying with a
sect will be led out of Islam by Allah.  There isn't even a sunni
sect ... there are no sects at all!

Some wish to say that we accept the Qur'an and the hadith while others
argue that they accept the Quran but not the hadith.  Explain to me
how they accept one and not the other when any supposedly badly motivated
changes would have come through the same people.  I think that anyone
who wants to play upon this base, and also cites sects,  is looking for
an exit from the clear truth.  Certainly none of the tennants of Islam
would allow for a leader above the prophets or angels.  Perhaps some
one is practicing taqiyya here?  What do you think about the claims
made for the shia imams?  The issue doesn't end with the shia beliefs
either.  In many ways these beliefs are no different that those of
others who claim to believe in God and the Qur'an but reject the
rest of Islam.  They are confused about the nature of Islam as well.

I can tell you right now I don't accept a word of it or any discussion
of sects.  Those that wish to analyse sects should get back into Islam!
The word Islam is the copyright of Allah for His religion.  He never
intended for people to play around about versions like it was some kind
of software.  There is one version only ... those who feel the need to
separate and protect themselves by lying are in error.  If they are
only trying to protect themselves then why do I feel so much safer far
away from them?  I think that taqiyya is much more frequently used as
an offensive tool against Islam than as a defnese supposed bad people.

Omar