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From: naim@eecs.nwu.edu (Naim Abdullah)
Newsgroups: soc.religion.islam
Subject: Re: Taq'ia
Message-ID: <4555@accuvax.nwu.edu>
Date: 1 Mar 90 12:02:09 GMT
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Approved: naim@eecs.nwu.edu (Naim Abdullah)

Omar Dodd in replying to an article by Abbas explaining "Taq'ia" says:
>There are no sects in Islam.  There never was and never will be.  Islam
>is something you do not something you are.  Anyone identifying with a
>sect will be led out of Islam by Allah.  There isn't even a sunni
>sect ... there are no sects at all!

So why do you keep harping on shias ? Why not just accept that you and I
are not competent to judge anybody ? Leave judgements to Allah. People
who believe in Allah and the Quran are muslims and they are our brothers and 
sisters in Islam (regardless of whether they identify themselves as shias 
or sunnis). 

>  Bluntly put it is permissible or even required for
>a shia muslim to outright lie about his beliefs in order to mislead
>people.
>[...]
> Do you wonder that I became confused?  Lots of other new Muslims
>are confused as well.  How am I to reconcile this with the Islam I
>find in the Qur'an?

This is quite different from what Abbas has explained.

If you are starving, it is permissible to eat pork to save your life.
If somebody is standing with a knife at your throat, it is permissible
to lie to save your life. If somebody will kill you unless you profess to 
be a sunni, I think lying is quite permissible under that situation.

If you refuse to accept Abbas's explanation and claim that *he* is
practicing "Taq'ia" then your claim about not being divisive
is pretty hollow.

>  In addition I have been personally accosted at
>our local Islamic Center by pamphlet pushing shia who are actively
>trying to cause problems with any one who'll listen to them.  Why
>should I care about their strange beliefs when Islam is so clearly
>outlined in the Qur'an and sunna?

Why do you insist on identifying them as "shia" ? Why not just say
that you have been accosted by rude people who are trying to push
their believes upon you ? Identifying them as shia means that you
are associating the shia beliefs with this kind of rude behaviour.
Associating a large bunch of muslims with this kind of behaviour
is certainly divisive.

I know numerous shia muslims. None of them have ever tried to
push their beliefs upon me.

Please understand that it takes all kinds of people.

>The Shia attribute titles to
>their leaders which exceed the limits of Islamic thinking.  These
>leaders claim for themselves special powers.  When I ask some
>shia here about this they practice taqiyya, or shall I say they
>just lie about it.  Later others of them admit this.
                           ^^^^^^
Maybe the shia sect is not monolithic on this issue. Maybe they have
different opinions about this issue. Why do you insist on interpeting
this lack of a quorum as evidence of deception ?

>[ claims about shia beliefs ]
>I can tell you right now I don't accept a word of it or any discussion
>of sects.  Those that wish to analyse sects should get back into Islam!
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is interesting, given that your whole article was an analysis
(however poor) of the shia sect. Why not just accept them as your
brothers and sisters in Islam and leave a judgement on their beliefs to Allah ?
Who appointed you as judge upon the appropriateness of the beliefs of muslims ?
You and I have enough of our own sins to worry about. Why this eagerness to 
judge your fellow muslims ?

People are unique. Every muslim has a slightly different set of beliefs
and opinions. Why do you have this urge to stand in judgement of other
people's beliefs ? 

>The word Islam is the copyright of Allah for His religion.  He never
>intended for people to play around about versions like it was some kind
>of software.

You have no proof that YOUR version of Islam is the one Allah intended.
All you have is your opinion. You are certainly entitled to that. But
please respect other muslims' rights to have their own view of Islam
which might be different than yours.

>If they are only trying to protect themselves then why do I feel so much 
>safer far away from them?  

Perhaps because your views and your expression of those views, are
quite offensive and divisive.  It is not surprising that you feel unsafe 
around the people whom you offend so gravely.

>I think that taqiyya is much more frequently used as
>an offensive tool against Islam than as a defnese supposed bad people.

First, please provide some evidence for this claim.

Second, according to Abbas's explanation, taqia is to be used in life 
threatening situation to save your life. People who practice deception as "an 
offensive tool against Islam" are just LYING. And you should refer to it as 
such. It would not qualify as "taqia".

It is unfortunate that soc.religion.islam is having this discussion. It is
a low point of this newsgroup.

     Naim