Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!mailrus!ncar!umigw!mthvax!bsherman From: bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (Bob Sherman) Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple Subject: Re: contacts in Norman, OK Message-ID: <1990Mar10.081440.18276@mthvax.cs.miami.edu> Date: 10 Mar 90 08:14:40 GMT References: <9003050139.AA19408@apple.com> <39202@apple.Apple.COM> <1990Mar9.011652.26967@mthvax.cs.miami.edu> <1192@batman.moravian.EDU> Organization: U of Miami Dept. of Math. and Computer Science, Coral Gables, FL 33124 Lines: 142 In <1192@batman.moravian.EDU> nicholaA@batman.moravian.EDU (Andy Nicholas) writes: >In article <1990Mar9.011652.26967@mthvax.cs.miami.edu>, bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (Bob Sherman) writes: >>>Todd, what would you do if you were working 60+ hour weeks developing new >>>products for the Apple II just to read on newsgroups like this one that >>>you and your coworkers are "developing at a snail's pace"? >> >>>Matt Deatherage, Apple Computer, Inc. | "The opinions represented here are >> >> Why in the world do you insist on shoveling sh*t at them?? >[....] >> your anger and frustration reports, direct to the "towers", and let the DTS >> folks find their visits here more pleasurable, and let them do what they >> do best, help with your programming, and/or technical problems.. >> >Good, because you're going to get flamed... >**** FLAME ON **** >Bob, of all people to complain about the way that people post frustrating news >(from an apple employee's point of view), you should be the last to talk -- I >mean, hey, who was the first person to broadcast on this net that the A2DA >people had gone to cupertino and were told to "think mac" (when that may not >in fact be true)? You want to post deliberately depressing drivel like that, >yet you say that DTS should be given a break on this network? I find that >somewhat hypocritical... Let's get one thing straight from the start. What I said was not to unload on the folks from DTS that are very much on our side.. I did not say that there should be a cut off on an exchange of information on the net, be it good, bad, or sad. If you have information of interest to others, by all means pass it along, but it does not have to be in the form of an attack upon the folks from Apple that are here trying to help us. The guys from Apple that frequent the net are not here in the role of being a scape goat for everyones petty (or major) frustrations, if you have those I only suggested that you send them to the folks in the "Apple Towers" as they are the only ones that can change whatever it is that frustrates you.. >It's fairly obvious that someone close to Barney Stone has died. Knowing this >lets us put the following possibilities into a little perspective: >(A) Someone close to Barney Stone dies. Barney is upset before, during, or > after (definitely after) the A2DA meeting at Apple. Barney thinks it > went bad because he is feeling very down. Thus the impression he gives > everyone else is one of doom-and-gloom. Nothing went wrong with the > meeting with Apple except for Apple presumed lack of enthusiasm for the > Apple II. >...or... >(B) Someone close to Barney Stone dies. Barney is frustrated and upset > during the A2DA meeting. He blows up at Apple.(1) Apple tells Barney they > are going to discontinue the Apple II just to piss him off. Barney is > pissed AND hurt, but can't tell anyone because he's bound by non-disclosure > by Apple. > -1- If Barney knew that this person was ill or had died before going to > Apple, I perceive that Barney acted somewhat irresponsibly by going > to Apple in a very important capacity when his emotional state was > not good. Good judgement is one of the qualities of a good leader. > Good judgement under stress is one of the qualities of a -great- > leader. I've seen Barney in action already, and I'm positive he > lacks the latter. > -2- If Barney found out about this person's death during his stay in > Cupertino, instead of going to any meetings he should have excused > himself to fly home and *NOT* take his emotional state into the > meeting with Apple. Again, it's a question of judgement. > -3- If Barney found out about this person's death AFTER the A2DA meeting > with Apple, this would just add to the doom-and-gloom to which > Barney subscribes after Apple told him proverbially 'where to get off.' > > Footnote #1: this was told to me by a reasonably reliable source that I > trust, but haven't heard from in ages... >---- >This leads us to ponder the following: >(1) Did Barney blow up at Apple while at the A2DA meeting? Did someone else > from A2DA blow-up at Apple and this has been ascribed to Barney? > If Barney did blow-up at Apple at the A2DA meeting, did anyone realize that > someone close to him had just died? Does anyone at Apple know? Did this > person, in fact, die before, during, or after the A2DA meeting? >(2) Did Apple respond to the presumed attack by Barney by telling him they > were going to discontinue the Apple II? Was Apple serious? Or was Apple > just trying to get a rise out of an already emotionally distraught Barney? >(3) Will Barney's report be accurate or anywhere near reliable since he, > still being upset, has to get Apple's permission before he posts anything > anywhere? Will Barney's report be believable? >I highly respect Barney Stone as a person and an excellent programmer. Anything >which I have said should not be construed otherwise. My comments were not >made to reflect negatively on Barney, who, I'm sure, has enough to worry about >right now. >**** FLAME OFF **** >andy >These are my opinions, not necessarily fact, and are not the opinions held by >Moravian College and its administration. Just to set the record straight as I know it. I find it hard to believe that you find it humorous that someone in Barney's family passed away, and wish to poke all of the above at him in a time when he is suffering the loss of a loved one. The death occured several days AFTER Barney returned from the meeting at Apple, and had nothing to do with his actions while he was in Cupertino. He has been spending his time in the A2 Developers Assn to help foster the cause of ALL A2 programmers (that includes you too Andy) and continues to do so at HIS expense. The trip to Apple had to cost him well over a thousand bucks out of his own pocket (remember, the Assn. has never asked for the first penny from anyone that belongs to it), yet it is trying to help everyone. To insure that whatever public statement Barney makes is correct and factual, and presents a fair point of view, Barney wants it to be approved not only by Apple, but by other members of the group that were present at the meeting. That process, combined with the death in his family has been the cause of the delay in his posting of the notice. In addition Barney has asked another member of the group that attended the meeting to also write and make public "their view" of the events that took place, so that there is more than one viewpoint available to all of us. Does that sound like the actions of a man that you describe above as possibly not being reliable or accurate? Be glad there is someone like Barney out there TRYING, and putting his own money where his mouth is. -- bsherman@mthvax.cs.miami.edu | bsherman@pro-exchange | MCI MAIL: BSHERMAN >> Miami's Big Apple - 305-948-8000 - 24 hours - 300/1200 - PCP'able << >> Oldest Apple support board in Southeast. Now in its ninth year. <<