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From: toddpw@tybalt.caltech.edu (Todd P. Whitesel)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple
Subject: Re: F U T U R E   O F   A P P L E   I I
Message-ID: <1990Mar12.004717.3848@spectre.ccsf.caltech.edu>
Date: 12 Mar 90 00:47:17 GMT
References: <10789.infoapple.net@pro-generic>
Sender: news@spectre.ccsf.caltech.edu
Organization: California Institute of Technology
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sb@pro-generic.cts.com (Stephen Brown) writes:

>It's not easy posting this message, as I hate to be cast as a 'gossip' or
>rumour spreader, yet I think this information is important enough to be
>flamed over.

It's never easy.
But nobody on here is about to disagree with you and if they do they either
know something we don't or they don't know what they're talking about.

>I have strong reason to believe (sorry, can't specify sources) that the
>Apple II's days are extremely numbered. Support (if you can call it that)
>will continue with occasional software upgrades and occasional new
>peripherals... very much like its been over the last few years -- WITH ONE 
>important exception: The machines will be out of production.

We've seen this coming for a l-o-n-g time.... But Apple has set itself up in
a nice little ivory tower so they don't even know what their own reps are doing
anymore. Non 68030 mac owners have been experiencing similar problems but not
half as bad or degrading as we have.

>Why? Sales have dropped a lot.  Why? Because the current Apple II
>computers are too expensive for the 'horsepower' they offer, they are not

The //c+ is darn good deal at $450. The GS badly needs an update and they
could do it if they got the OK from upstairs. In fact, it is so easy to make
a REAL IIGS that Apple is practically admitting to conspiracy (or extreme
market ineptness) by not allowing its engineers to do so.

>advertised, and finally, they are pushed towards one market:
>Primary/Junior school.  And to add insult to injury, Apple is now eroding
>even this market with Macintosh.  In a nutshell, they have created a

When are they going to realize that both the II and the Mac have a place in
the schools? A supercheap //c or similar machine (don't tell me it can't be
done) which used the lab's localtalk for everything would be a perfect solution
for many educators because they want lots of cheap machines in the lab and
a few powerful machines for hypermedia and industrial stuff like CAD.

My high school bought IBM's for their CAD classes, so I learned AutoCAD on a
Leading Edge PC compatible. They couldn't afford Macs and they couldn't find
any CAD packages for the GS. This is not the II's fault, it's Apple's.

>situation in which Apple II's have no market, so they have justification
>to discontinue the machine. It isn't happening... it's happened.

Does Apple really think they can have their cake and eat it too? Or are they
going to realize that they haven't really tapped the full potential of their
first machine yet? I am sick of people who are so progress minded that they
neglect the realities of engineering and computer development. There will be
markets for the II that the Mac CANNOT touch, and Apple is going to lose out
on them OR PISS OFF A LOT OF PEOPLE in the process of forcing them to buy
what Apple decides to produce and not the better machine for the job.

>What does this mean to you, a user of an Apple II? It means that the new
>software, hardware, and interest in your machine will dwindle and vanish
>over the next few years. You think there's no new software? You think
>there are too few magazines? You ain't seen nothin' yet...

Yep. And if Apple really cared they'd be asking us for ideas and not choking
Barney Stone with non-disclosure agreements.

>What can you do? I'm afraid to say the nails may already be in the coffin. 
>However, I DO suggest that you write to Apple USA (not Canada, of course)
>and tell them what you think. Do you resent being "used" to finance
>Apple's future, if you are not intended to have a part? Do you like being
>told "Apple II Forever" is Apple's commitment, when it's barely lip
>service?  Do you like being part of the enormous 'cash cow' project? I
>don't.

I used to agree with the idea... but that was on the understanding that when
the Mac was standing on its own it would help rebuild the II in return...
NOT STAB IT IN THE BACK!
 
>May I suggest that you write to Apple NOW. Not tomorrow. Not next week.
>Now. If you wait, you will have missed your opportunity. I'll tell you
>what I'm going to tell them:  I don't appreciate the lack of support, and
>I don't like their disdainful attitude towards the Apple II. And if this
>is their attitude, then hell will freeze over before I buy another product 
>from this company.      

I'm waiting for the summit reports to come out. Over break (we have finals
this week) I will be up in San Jose and maybe I can think of something that
will help the situation. I'm taking suggestions, but throwing a brick through
Sculley's window won't do. (I can't throw that high.)

>Once you have written your letter(s) to Apple, write to ALL the software and
>hardware suppliers that supply stuff for the Apple II, and tell them to get on
>Apple's back. Better: tell them to use their databases of registered users to
>start a letter writing campaign.

I agree. I was considering revamps of the //f writing effort (including a much
more acidic and therefore more accurate "reality vs. Apple") and distributing
the whole thing as a package to get people to write letters.

>Once you have done this, tell (not ask) everyone you know who uses an Apple II
>to do the same. And when you (and they) write, don't bother mincing words. Lay
>it on the line... or flowery tactfulness will prevent penetration through some
>awefully thick skulls.

And what bothers me is, we shouldn't have to do this. I'm beginning to think
that Apple should give the Apple II its own division with its own evangelism,
and people who will give it the respect it deserves.

>Stephen Brown

>P.S. My letters are already written, and by the time you read this, they'll be
>sent. 

Most of us are cheering you.

>P.P.S. Go ahead and flame me (or acid me). It will all be academic once
>Apple's statement about the Apple II line is public. The gist: Think
>Macintosh. And if you have an Apple II, support will be occasional software
>upgrades, and the odd new peripheral. No new CPU's, and existing CPU's out of
>production.

No flames. You've crystallized our fears in more urgent terms than I've been
willing to use so far. But you're right... Things had better happen NOW.

>I'm so sorry to say Murph's ROM 04 rumour was just someone's wishful thinking.

If it stays a rumor than it is proof that Apple doesn't give a shit about its
own product. I can't wait to see what happens when they think of something
that will replace the Macintosh.

Maybe we should start a direct mail campaign... Politicians use them and they
are very powerful for situations like this.

Maybe we should archive these discussions from now on and start dumping them
on Apple's FTP site. Or mail hefty packages to Sculley every week or so.

Apple management has built one hell of an ivory tower for itself and we've
got to figure out how to get to the top of it.

Todd Whitesel
toddpw @ tybalt.caltech.edu