Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!uflorida!stat!fsu!gw.scri.fsu.edu!pepke From: pepke@gw.scri.fsu.edu (Eric Pepke) Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac Subject: Re: No Macintalk in system 7? (was Re: Moose and SE/30) Message-ID: <560@fsu.scri.fsu.edu> Date: 12 Mar 90 17:12:40 GMT Sender: news@fsu.scri.fsu.edu Organization: Florida State University, but I don't speak for them Lines: 95 References: <48744@coherent.coherent.com> <3564@infmx.UUCP> <49013@coherent.coherent.com> <32015@brunix.UUCP> <39340@apple.Apple.COM> <548@fsu.scri.fsu.edu> <39364@apple.Apple.COM> I apologize to the rest of the net for the essentially personal open letter nature of this posting, and in my defense can only say that I was responding to that kind of posting. Dear Jordan, It is unfortunate that you thought that I was spewing venom at you. I appreciate your politeness in telling me so, and I will try to return the compliment. I was not attempting to spew venom, and I stated that fact not once, but twice. I am of the personal opinion that Apple has done most of the Good Things in the computer industry and also that without excption everyone who has contributed to this network is part of that. In particular, I think that awareness of some people's special needs to serve a very small minority of people is excellent and should be commended. Of course, there is a problem in that there is a natural human tendency to speak only when something goes wrong, and there is an equally natural human tendency to remember criticism more intensely than praise. You yourself might, even now, be hard pressed to remember the dozens of times I have praised Apple for something. Add to that the fact that my style does rankle some people, although I try to express general frustrations in large and ridiculous metaphors, and I try to state at the beginning and the end that no flame is intended. So, I understand how you may have taken offense and may have been frustrated. Please reread my posting and try to understand why I am frustrated. There is valid criticism hidden in there somewhere. You say my words are powerful. Please grant my explanations that I am not trying to flame anybody the same power as the rest. Also, please give some thought to another frustration of mine. Apple is a fairly big company. Left hands don't neccesarily know what right hands are doing, nor should they. I think that most of the people who watch this net understand that. However, sometimes criticism of some of the things that are done or not done gets lively. No, I don't see Apple day by day, and sometimes, therefore, I don't know the source of the problem to criticise. I generally assume that such sources are hard to track down but that the first step in doing so is recognizing that there is a problem. Often, when there is some serious criticism of Apple, whether expressed harshly or not, there is one person who works at Apple and, in spite of disclaimers, takes it to heart, takes it personally. This most recently happened with the bit about the Microsoft suit. I can understand how this happens, but please try to understand the effects. It tends to belie the disclaimers and tends to turn this newsgroup into something like AppleLink, with the world divided into Apple people and non-Apple people. This would be a bad thing, because one of the great strengths of this group is that it is informal, that Apple employees do not post _qua_ Apple employees. As happened with the Microsoft suit, the us-vs.-them, take it all to heart stuff tended to obscure the real message, that of what us ordinary po' folk thought about it. The other disadvantage is the fact that somebody is bound to take offense at a remark tends to increase the frustration threshold for posting. Also, it works. I received an Email to the effect that my posting had been brought to the attention of developers. This is, by far, the most fantastically fast response I have ever gotten to anything I have ever brought up, here, through a mediary on AppleLink, or elsewhere! And I thought I was just blowing off steam! You're right. I don't see Apple day to day. On the other hand, you may not see the end users that I see day to day. You may not see the teachers who have fought loyally for Macintoshes for half a decade and are scared that their software will break if they upgrade and only see phrases like "not supported" and "we are committed to providing." You may not see the leader of a major GUI project who says that Apple has become just as bad as [another company, whose three initials spell out a scatological comment]. You may not see the worries about the management shakeup, especially in light of many recent statements to the effect that there is no reason to assume that Gasse would resign, a couple of weeks before he did. Hey, I don't see them day to day either, but I do see them sometimes, and I listen. Sometimes I try to assuage their fears, for the sole reason that I think that Macintoshes are still insanely great. I have one final though for you. IMHO, people tend to criticize in an escalating scale, like this: 1) Criticize politely 2) Criticize nastily 3) Criticize coldly and without emotion, using their wallets Jordan, if you would like to discuss this further, I can be reached by Email. Honest, I don't think that either you personally or Apple in general is the Great Satan. Now that the surface tension is broken, I can be more courteous. for (;;) { printf("Possible inferences notwithstanding, nothing\n"); printf("in this posting is intended to offend.\n"); } Eric Pepke INTERNET: pepke@gw.scri.fsu.edu Supercomputer Computations Research Institute MFENET: pepke@fsu Florida State University SPAN: scri::pepke Tallahassee, FL 32306-4052 BITNET: pepke@fsu Disclaimer: My employers seldom even LISTEN to my opinions. Meta-disclaimer: Any society that needs disclaimers has too many lawyers.